Proposition 52K2576

Projet de loi autorisant le ministre des Finances à consentir des prêts à la République hellénique.

General information ¶

Submitted by

CD&V Leterme Ⅱ

Submission date

April 28, 2010

Official page

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Status

Adopted

Requirement

Simple

Subjects

European Central Bank Greece International Monetary Fund international loan loan public borrowing

Voting ¶

Voted to adopt

Groen CD&V Vooruit Ecolo LE PS | SP Open Vld N-VA MR

Voted to reject

LDD VB

Party dissidents ¶

• Luc Sevenhans (VB) voted to adopt.

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Discussion ¶

May 5, 2010 | Plenary session (Chamber of representatives)

Full source

Since the report has since been rounded up, I can refer to the written report. That seems to be the best solution.

It was initially agreed to submit a verbal report. However, since we have had to spend a lot of time on this bill, not on the content, but because certain people last week thought they had to read articles from books, where the question can be asked about the added value of those statements for the discussion of the bill, I want to leave it here.

The Minister of Water has the word. Anyone who wishes to enter can come and register with me.

Mr. Speaker, colleagues, from my desk, I would like to emphasize that it is surreal to discuss such a draft in the political situation we are currently in. However, the credibility of our country and of the eurozone and the stability of our own banking system cannot do otherwise.

Given the dangers associated with the collapse of the eurozone, and given the conclusion that even Nobel Prize winners today predict that the current crisis could mean the end of the euro, it is time to take action.

Our group would like to emphasize very strongly that the current government has taken its responsibility. Our group wants to go for the draft, because Belgium must take its international responsibility. We must also think about our own economy and ensure that there is no additional risk of contamination.

Therefore, CD&V will support the proposed design with great enthusiasm.

Mr. President, Mr. Minister, dear colleagues, Mr. Van Biesen, your report was relatively short, but not objective.

If we had approved the bill last week, then we would not have been able to follow the evolution in the file and then we would have had to make a judgment last week while some facts were not yet known to us, which today, a week later, is the case. That is a first thing.

A second element, the colleagues who have spoken on the subject, such as colleague Pas, colleague Laeremans and colleague Van den Eynde, concerning the Greek problem, I would like to congratulate for their presentation.

If in recent days I look at the evolution of the file concerning the granting of loans by several European Member States to the Hellenic Republic, Greece, I can only find that the amount is increasing. It is as if the member states are spelling money.

I also hear that the situation in Greece is escalating, not only on the stock exchanges, of which we saw yesterday a stable, which shows that the mistrust is increasing, but also in the streets of Athens, where apparently today a bank has been burned and where a number of deaths have already fallen.

In any case, until recently it was a total amount of signage and write 45 billion euros. Now, a week later, it is already about 110 billion euros. To say it with a boutade: when the masters-wizard with billions start to spell, farmer pay attention to your goats.

First, it was a Belgian contribution of 1.07 billion euros. The draft law, which is presented today, has now shown that this Parliament in fact authorizes the King to go up to a maximum amount of 2 billion euros. Last weekend there was another Eurotop summit of the finance ministers. Since then, we know that this country’s contribution has already reached 3 billion euros over a period of the next three years.

Thro ⁇ the whole story of the aid to Greece, we can ask ourselves what the euro still means for the Belgian State, what the euro still means for the saving people. The euro as its currency, and the euro area linked to it, was initially a project of quality and stability. The question is whether this is still the case today. In the eurozone of what is summarily called the German Mark Model, we are sliding down to the drachm model. With this I want to say the following. If we align ourselves with the Greeks, that, in our view, is not a good thing for the euro area because we are moving away from the starting points of the euro and the euro area, in particular the quality of the currency and the monetary stability.

I note that the milestones of quality and stability have been drastically eased in recent days. It is sufficient to look at the reaction of the population in the different Member States, with the German population as the main opponent because the Germans, with the hyperinflation of the 1920s of the last century in mind, are still ⁇ sensitive to a weak currency.

In recent days, we have been able to see that the euro has become more and more weak and has since yesterday reached its lowest level in a year. We also note that the price of gold is rising. The reason for this is very simple. There is and remains distrust towards the whole project of aid to Greece. Just look at the reactions of yesterday on the Spanish stock exchanges, which just got a 5% blow around the ears. We know where we begin, colleagues, but we don’t know where it ends.

I find that the confidence of non-European countries is falling because they assumed that the euro could be considered as a reserve currency for government securities. Due to the loss of that trust, more and more investors want to lose those government bonds and the interest in European paper is decreasing more and more.

No matter how we turn it or turn it, colleagues, lessons for the future must be drawn. The Greek crisis exposes a serious structural defect in the European structure. Europe has no response to the first serious crisis of the single currency. The market is waiting impatiently for a fundamental solution. If this does not happen, Greece will only be the beginning.

Although these are phenomenal amounts, the cost of the Greek debacle would in principle still be manageable as the country’s share in European GDP is only 2.6%. Portugal, which accounts for 1.8% of GDP, would also be able to save without saving too many clothing cracks. However, if Spain loses confidence with 11.8 % of the European GDP, or Italy with 17 % of the European GDP, the damage to the financial markets becomes unpredictable.

Action is therefore necessary. In the short term, several alternatives are needed to avoid a liquidity crisis. Regardless of the solution chosen, it must, in our view, be linked to strict conditions in terms of structural sanitation of public finances, in order to ensure the improvement of the competitiveness of the country concerned and its long-term sustainability. A timely and unanimous action could put the financial markets in a more favorable position.

In addition, the adaptation of the European Treaty is, in our view, indispensable. The Convention should clearly define how such problems will be addressed in the future. A uniform, transparent and immediately applicable procedure should replace the current ad-hoc regime, which only creates anxiety and chaos.

Mr. Goyvaerts, Mr. Waterschoot wishes to interrupt you.

Colleague Goyvaerts, I would like to interrupt your passionate argument for a moment, although that was much more interesting than the history of the Greek kings and the Greek money in 500 BC. You always talk about support. I get a bit of the impression that you are talking about charity. I think it is important to emphasize that this is a loan, with a risk premium, for which Belgium is reimbursed, and to which all sorts of conditions are linked.

It may, which was also confirmed in the commission, not be a blanco cheque and it is not. There are conditions connected. These loans will be paid out in discs and it will be checked whether those conditions are sufficient. In a country with an open, small and vulnerable economy – we are very dependent on international trade – we can only be for that, even simply for the consequences for our own country. I understand that you may have problems with Greece, but think at least about our economy here and the impact of this measure on our economy.

Colleague Waterschoot, you do not have to talk about election rhetoric. It is about 3 billion euros and that is indeed linked to a number of conditions, but there is no element that indicates that Greece will be able to repay those 3 billion euros.

Second, as I just said, Greece may be just the beginning. We know where we begin, but we don’t know where it ends.

Furthermore, I believe that the eurozone countries have been tempted to intervene in time. Everyone knew in December 2009 that Greece’s budget, that Greece’s budget results contain printed figures. We are now five to six months ahead. You could have reacted for a long time. It might have been possible to react at first, but not with the measures that are now proposed.

Ladies and gentlemen, I will continue with my speech. Current laws and regulations are inadequate and are also poorly applied. The prohibition of a guarantee for the benefit of other Member States should be strengthened by enforceable sanctions, without reversing the costs to the European taxpayers.

If possible, a Member State that continues to persist in anger may be temporarily obliged to leave the euro area. Such an extreme measure would give the country concerned the necessary time to get out of the difficulties without dragging the other countries of the euro area into its trap.

Of course, this must be done under the guidance of Europe and the country should be admitted back to the Euroclub as soon as it again meets the convergence criteria.

We also consider the IMF to play a role. This institution, in fact, has the moral authority to address the whole problem fundamentally, something that has not been demonstrated to date at European level. This has been demonstrated by the debate within the Eurogroup in recent days. Since the IMF is a global institution and therefore only partially dependent on the European countries, the likelihood of political cow trade or even genuine blackmail, so often a feature in discussions between European Member States, is much less.

In short, the Greek tragedy is more than a wake-up call for what I could call the Club-Mediterranean countries and, in the event of enlargement, the entire Union. A fundamental approach is needed, otherwise future crises are inevitable, which can lead to the end of the single currency. Yesterday there were high-ranking people who spoke about this. This is primarily a political choice. We believe that greater economic coordination with better safeguards for the euro is in question.

In any case, the Belgian government is taking a new step to borrow the 3 billion euros, at one point, colleague Waterschoot, that this government in a state of downward affairs is unable to get its own state budget in order and the Belgian State is struggling to finance its own rising state debt.

In addition, the Belgian State is undoubtedly very vulnerable if interest rates continue to rise in the coming time.

In the face of the situation in Greece, I believe that the Belgian government would better learn from its budgetary situation and should face it in a more serious way in the longer term.

Colleagues, the ham question today is whether the drastic efforts required from the Greek population will be sufficient to reverse the tide. What will we actually do? We will lend a lot of money to Greece. The borrowed money must be repaid by Greece. However, the interest to be able to pay the loans, the Greeks have to borrow again. The above should be done without raising interest rates. I guess no one in the room believes that.

I really wonder if the loan in question is a structural solution. In addition, I wonder if anything is not speculation with tax money. Greek government bonds have now received the status of rubble bonds. So why do we keep money in a country where government bonds have been qualified as rubble bonds?

I also note that there is a lot of uncertainty throughout the operation and that there is little transparency in this regard to the outside world. When I read the financial press, I notice that it is apparently not just about saving the Greek state finances. It is also about the rescue of the Greek banks. I do not understand that the various governments – including the Belgian government – together with the IMF have not been able to develop other alternatives in time. I think in this regard, for example, of the dismissal of payment of interest duties or of a debt restructuring with partial dismissal.

The Flemish Interest is of the opinion that, if the operation in question is in the framework of the rescue of the Greek banks, the government should have communicated this clearly and clearly to the public.

The entire aid mechanism to Greece has a huge precedent value. What will the Belgian government do if it fails with Portugal? What will the Belgian government do if it fails with Spain? Therefore, I remain wondering whether we have actually helped the Greeks today by approving the present bill. The Flemish Interest is of the judgment of no. That is why we, as the only political group in the Committee on Finance and Budget, did not approve the draft, which we will also do during today’s plenary session.

Mr. President, Mr. Minister, dear colleagues, a few moments ago, the mailings announced that today’s protests in Athens killed at least three people. This gives you an insight into the extent of the financial, economic and social drama in which Greece is plunged. This is a matter that we must deal with with respect, but also and above all with seriousness.

I will go straight to the goal. We must help Greece in the name of European solidarity, of course, but also – I would say – in the name of solidarity simply, in the name of solidarity that requires that we come to help the victims of aggression.

Greece has been the victim of an unprecedented attack by speculators on our continent. It is a loose and indecent aggression that has enriched a few speculators and kneeled a whole country: increasing the retirement age by two years, reducing the salaries of public officials, raising consumer taxes, etc. In Greece, it is Mr. and Mrs. All-World who will have to put their hand on the wallet and work even more hard to tie the two ends each month, while others, speculators and bankers, rub their hands.

The crisis of an ultra-liberal system is not behind us. What happened yesterday and today in Greece and threatens other European states shows that the conservative forces have allowed the pseudo-gods of finance to start everything again as before or almost, as if nothing had happened, as if the world economy had not been ravaged by the shadows of the financial and banking crisis.

Nothing has changed since the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers. What must we wait to finally take the necessary steps, to finally properly control this financial system, to punish speculation that becomes dangerous?

What about the creation of a public and, if possible, European rating agency, much more rigorous and independent of the financial circles and above all subject to public control? What about the adoption of a tax that would curb speculation, a Tobin type tax but in an updated version? How can we tolerate that those speculators who are at the root of the global crisis have been able to put a state kneeling to the ground?

I refer to the report of our committee, Mr. Van Biesen. Speaking of speculators, there was an intervention that I honestly say shocked me. I regret that mr. Donnea, the chairman of the commission, could not be present today. That said, I can read the report – which was written in a more or less acceptable or presentable way: “Mr. Donnea points out that speculation does not always have negative consequences. In the case of the Greek crisis, speculation served as an alarm bell and awakened the other eurozone countries by highlighting the gravity of speculation.”

Dear colleague, first of all, I find it a pity to talk about someone when they are not there to defend themselves. Secondly, you must then incorporate the whole discussion, including the attitude of the Minister of Finance on the issue of speculation and also what I myself said about it. Citing a phrase from a person while the Minister of Finance and myself have said slightly different things is not very correct.

Mr. Flahaux, there are times to talk and others...

I never claimed that you said the same thing as Mr. You or the Minister of Finance. I am quoting Mr. of Donna . At the same time, Mr. From Donnea said these words, in a singular colloquium, you turned to me as I questioned you on the subject to tell me that the MR was a large family and that there could be extremes. We have a demonstration today!

In any case, according to Mr. The new function of international speculation is to serve as an alarm bell. Please forgive me, but taking the Greek dossier this way, with all the seriousness it has today, we cannot find ourselves there, that is obvious. How else can we tolerate that it is the Greek citizens, Mr. And Miss World in Greece who pay the inertia or the delays of the European Union or institutions such as the International Monetary Fund that in a year have nothing prevented?

As a coincidence, we are heard again today that the European Commission will take a number of steps and we will probably have a new G20 meeting in the coming weeks. We have done nothing, but we will do it. Meanwhile, the Greek government has had to take emergency measures, imposed by the international community, measures that will hurt, very hurt the Greek citizens, such as, for example, to address social security. If ever tomorrow there was a contagion, we know who should pay in other European countries: social security, pensions, public services. This is what the financial markets require.

Nothing has changed, but in the current situation, we must help Greece. By helping Greece, it is solidarity that wins both for this country and for Europe as a whole. It is essential to help the economic recovery, otherwise the contagion could be felt, which would be even more serious.

This bill is intended to authorise Belgium to grant loans to the Hellenic Republic as part of the joint declaration made by the Heads of State and Government of the Member States of the euro area to provide their financial support to the Hellenic Republic jointly with the International Monetary Fund.

But we should not stop here! We must attack those who have attacked Greece. We must attack those who have speculated, who have destroyed future prospects, ⁇ for several generations of Greeks. We must put them out of a state of harm!

At a time when international solidarity triumphs without glory, I cannot help but look at our country, to contemplate with sadness what has prompted some to dismay and agitate in all directions. When you see the dramatic situation of the entire population of this European country, I think that many here have made a mistake of fighting.

At first, I did not intend to intervene, but it is true that the evolution of the debate encourages me to do so.

The loan granted by Belgium to Greece is an excellent example of solidarity that must prevail between the euro area Member States. So this is a necessary formula, I would say even vital.

As the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance emphasized yesterday in a committee, by helping Greece, we are helping ourselves. Indeed, we contribute to the credibility of our economy, we contribute to the credibility of our currency and, in the end, we contribute to the socio-economic standard of life of our fellow European citizens.

The Minister also stressed that the support measures are of extreme importance because they accompany a Greek plan for a large-scale recovery of public finances, affecting both public services and pensions and VAT. The measures in this financial consolidation plan have triggered a positive response from both the European Union and the ECB.

It should not be forgotten that the aid will cover approximately half of Greece’s public debt, or 110 billion euros that will expire over the next three years, including 30 from the head of the IMF and 80 from other euro area member states.

I am quite surprised at what I heard from a former vice prime minister: the speculation I denounce as much as you did not come by yourself. Why did she come? Because, for 25 years, two clans have appeared in Greece, which are not the left and the right, Madame God, but one presenting itself coming from socialism and the other from Christian democracy (considering its presence within the European Christian democracy). In fact, the reality is that one is the Papandreou clan and the other is the Karamanlis clan. Both were extreme examples of the bad government of Greece.

This country is the country of false-looking, of non-payment of taxes. Taxation is civic. There it was a true organization of circumvention of all laws, of all taxes, of all that makes the force of a state.

From this point of view, the European Union lacking the means to develop a genuine economic, social and fiscal policy, this poor governance has dragged things back and brought Greece to the current situation.

It is not correct to say that speculators are at the root of the problem. They focused on Greece and took advantage of its poor situation, which I denounce.

In this context, I think that solidarity is all the more vital and important. What would not have been said if we had not shown solidarity, following the call of all the European Finance Ministers – and I emphasize the work done by our Minister – and if we had simply passed under the caudine forks of the IMF and its general director, who is close to you, Mr. Coëme?

I think we did well. I had already said in a committee that I regret that Germany has been so slow to react, but we know that it is for domestic policy reasons; given the elections there next week, German Christian Democrats are stepping forward to provide aid to Greece.

Mr. Coëme, you have denounced some things, but if you denounce, you have to be objective. I find that one of the twenty-seven European states, which is very close to you, brakes the four bars on this aid. I am speaking here of the Socialist government of Slovakia that conditioned the aid to Greece to the fact that the austerity plan of the Greek Socialist government is credible. I hope that you will have, on behalf of your Socialist International, a way to pressure to end this totally unacceptable blockade!

I would like to add that bilateral loans are only a transitional solution to the Greek problem. The real solution will be that Europe will be endowed not only with a unified monetary policy but also, finally, with an economic and fiscal government. Unfortunately, this government is not yet in place because of your English socialist friends who have always stopped a real reform, including on the social level, Mr. Coëme! The first to reject a social Europe was the British Socialist government which, I hope, will be shaken in the coming hours!

In this context, we hope that this economic and budgetary government will one day be made and that it will be able to fight the bad governance of the Member States.

Mr. Coëme, I did not want to engage in polemics here but you yourself have been ⁇ polemical, which surprised me because I appreciate you very much. I find, however, that the three most “tangeant” states, also called the pigs, are all governed by homogeneous socialist governments, whether Greece, Spain or Portugal. Before giving lessons to others, you must first swipe in front of your door!

With regard to Belgium, the duty of solidarity with Greece has been fulfilled, and if it should be repeated, we would refer it. I hope this will not be the case, but if Spain or Portugal were to be attacked in their turn, we would take the same attitude. The goal is not at all to drive Greece out of the eurozone, as some editorialists say. On the contrary, we need more economic, social and monetary solidarity.

Mrs. Speaker, Mr. Minister, Mr. Secretary of State, colleagues, on behalf of my group, I would like to explain in four points why we will approve this bill.

First, the crisis that began as the crisis of a country, Greece, has slowly begun to decline. There were other countries in sight: Spain, Ireland, Portugal. Unfortunately, I think we must now recognize that it is threatening to become a crisis for the entire eurozone. The aid package is designed not only to solve the problems in Greece, but also to solve the problems related to the euro. For this reason, we believe that a support mechanism should be established because there is a real danger to our own economy. The aid now proposed as aid to Greece is in fact aid to the entire European Union.

Secondly, we think that the crisis has lasted too long. Will we help Greece or not? It has taken too long. There are explanations for that. The first explanation is that there has been a very intense political debate about moral hazard. If a support mechanism is set up and if it can be put into operation too easily, it is actually an invitation for potential beneficiaries of that support mechanism to just throw their butt at it and therefore not to demonstrate budgetary discipline. It is good that that discussion has been conducted, but it is regrettable that it was conducted while the Greek crisis was in full force. The discussion should have been held in advance. These agreements should have existed before a crisis emerged.

Another problem we have identified – unfortunately not the first time – is that everything that has to do with money in our European Treaty is decided unanimously. We have seen that in addition to the political debate, a problem of institutional weakness has also emerged. If there are no pre-defined rules of the game and one has to agree on a concrete dossier with 16 in the euro area or 27 in the European Union that everyone has to agree on in a crisis that is coming up, then that takes time. Again, that is regrettable, because the time that asked for it was actually an open invitation to speculators to speculate richly on the Greek problems, the possible problems of other countries and the euro zone. That is my third point.

There is a huge paradox. Two years ago we had a banking crisis. The government has come to help the banks with a lot of tax money. That same money, given by the taxpayer to the banks, is now used to speculate, not against banks or companies, but against countries, against currency zones, the eurozone. So we are threatening to get into the paradoxical situation that the money that governments make available to banks is used to speculate and make big money. This speculation will result in public budgets getting even more troubled in the coming months and years. After that, by colleague Waterschoot has already referred to Stiglitz. Stiglitz says: “The European Union must urgently address its institutional problems. Otherwise, the speculators will continue to have fun.”

I come to my last point. What does the SP ask? Unfortunately, we have a resigning government but the talks on the European level are continuing. What do we ask from the government? We ask that it urgently work on improving the control by Eurostat in the future. For me, it was unbelievable that in Greece the same bank that set up the schemes has then begun to speculate against Greece, because it knew well what was there. So I would say that it is unbelievable what has been happening in Greece for so many years, while there is something like Eurostat, which must monitor a correct budget.

Secondly—those who have been here for a while know that I have been advocating it for a long time—the total freedom of capital movement gives speculators a playground. Every day, tens of billions of dollars or euros flash over and over the world. Only 2% of those daily, immense amounts have something to do with the real economy, that is, with the provision of services or with the purchase or sale of goods. Only 2 percent.

As much as 98% of the money that flashes back and forth every day serves to earn even more money without making a real contribution to the economy. Like the PS colleagues, we urge the introduction of an instrument – urgently needed – that slows down the speed at which that money flashes back and forth, namely the financial transaction tax. We passed the Tobint Tax Act in 2004. We are the first country in the world. It is a precursor to the new instrument, which is supported by our European Socialist Party. We demand the commitment of our government to ensure the establishment of a financial transaction tax plus a ban on short-selling.

There is a huge amount of money in the market right now. Part of that money comes from the government. That money flows at high speeds back and forth. One sells huge amounts with small margins to sell it again a day later. Shortselling and other techniques should be strictly prohibited. The damage they inflict on national budgets and threaten to inflict on our social protection is unacceptable.

The last point we ask the resigning government before the dissolution of Parliament is the establishment of a European rating agency. Currently there are three. Three of them are American. We believe that a European rating agency is needed.

With this message, I would like to reiterate that we are ready to approve the bill. It is not perfect and it goes much less far than we wish, but unfortunately it is the few things we can do at the moment. We hope that in the coming weeks and months at European level the foundation for a better system will be laid. We therefore advocate for a European Funding Mechanism on a permanent basis, preferably as soon as possible.

Mrs. Speaker, colleagues, although the problem of this bill in the committee was dealt with by colleague Van de Velde, who is now stuck in the traffic, I would like to present the position of my party.

I have heard very interesting things, including from colleague Van der Maelen, whom I assisted in a very large extent. However, I must admit that it is a bit unilateral to place the big debt on the banking sector, although I do not want to exempt them from it.

In order to understand the present, it is sometimes important to know the past. We need to look at the situation in Greece. If the phrase fraus omnia corrumpit were to apply, Greece would not be given half a euro today. Greece joined the eurozone on the basis of false data and false budgets. Greece has ⁇ ined this for ten years, without even getting a check from Eurostat. They were able to falsify their figures for ten years without Eurostat even being allowed to check on-the-spot. Understand who can understand.

Now countries like Belgium, countries in difficulty and with budget deficits, are being asked to give billions of euros to Greece again.

That is not the only thing. Thro ⁇ Europe, there is pressure to raise the retirement age. I can understand the Germans. In the Netherlands, there is also a debate about raising the retirement age to 67 years. Guess which country has the lowest retirement age in Europe? of Greece.

When it comes to public employment, one in two people in Greece works for the government. One of the largest black economies in Europe is Greece. Tax evasion is a national sport.

What has happened? What has happened has long been predicted. I will read a piece of Maarten Verheyen. “Small countries who want to play a savior in need for a too big banking sector can end up in a very difficult shipwreck. Iceland was a little the canary in the coal mine, but it has not prevented anyone from descending yet. Fortis – and we know it so well, Mr. Minister – “for example, alone has twice as much debt as Belgium. One can rightly ask whether small countries have the resources to support big banks. A number of Eastern European countries, as well as some countries within the European Union, have overtaken their hand and are virtually bankrupt.”

Argentine states and countries that are no longer able to meet their obligations and pay off their debts are the result. What do we do today? We will raise their debt mountain again.

Look at what Greece is. It has a GDP of 237 billion euros. The government cuts about 37% in the form of tax revenues. That amounts to approximately 87 billion euros, but 119 billion euros are spent, resulting in a deficit of 32 billion euros. To overcome this deficit, 27% of the expenditure would have to be cut. Greece, in addition to what I have already said, has also received one of the largest euro subsidies in its existence. Wallonia can talk about this. I have then quietly whispered to the minister that Greece may be the Wallonia of Europe. The country has a public debt of 273 billion euros. These debts must be financed on the international market at a rate of 10%. If Greece is required to pay 10 % interest in the future, this would mean an annual interest burden of €27 billion, which is a quarter of all tax revenues.

What shall we do? We will increase this public debt. It is not about 40 billion, it is between 110 and 130 billion in total. I wonder if we actually do that country a service, because that’s what it’s about. It’s not about our fear of what will happen to the euro, but do we do a service to Greece by stopping it from increasing debt? Can we do what Geert Noels says? Everyone knows Geert Noels, our top economist. Mr. Geert Noels, dear colleagues, is the adviser of our Prince Philip.

Mr. Geert Noels wrote something about Greece. I will not remember it to you: “Greece must just say that it can’t pay its debts anymore and then the creditors” — among others the Belgian State, you hear what I say, other European states, Fortis and zombie banks — “but sit on the bubbles and suffer the consequences of their careless borrowing. Furthermore, one must be realistic and think of a solution for the eurozone, as Greece may never get up without devaluation.” However, Greece cannot devalue because it is in the eurozone. How can we offer this country a service? By removing the country from the eurozone so that it can devalue its currency and rejoin the European economy and the world economy.”

I do not say that. It is the former chief economist of Petercam and adviser of Prince Philip, who says it. What do we do, a country that itself is in trouble? We will send a billion euros to Greece today, another billion euros tomorrow, and a total of three billion euros.

We have known the market of rubble loans. Greece is a market for mortgages. The only remedy is to put Greece out of the eurozone to prevent further contamination, just as during the banking crisis the junk loans were separated from the healthy banking parts.

If solidarity, dear colleagues, becomes stupidity, it also harms its victim. This is exactly what is being done at the moment. It is courier am Symptom, because one will later have to give more and more to such aid-dependent countries, causing one himself into difficulties.

In the meantime, you will understand that we will not approve this bill. It’s not good for this country, it’s not good for Europe, it’s not good for the euro, and it’s ⁇ not good for Greece.

Mr. President, Mr. Minister of Finance, I told you here just a few weeks ago: the time is difficult for Greece.

This is also a difficult time for the Eurozone. We will therefore, of course, put ourselves in the camp of those who advocate solidarity with this country. This aid to Greece is indispensable, even only because of the exposure of European and Belgian banks to this debt. To help Greece is to help ourselves. To help Greece is to believe in the ability to build a solidary Europe.

This should not be done blindly. Of course, it is necessary to analyze the situation, take into account the reasons that led Greece there and try to launch the necessary measures to prevent this from happening again tomorrow, being understood that other countries are at risk of experiencing the same difficulties. Think of the demonstrations taking place right now in the streets of Athens.

We must not be mistaken about the origins of the Greek crisis. There is obviously an internal responsibility, especially with regard to the veracity of the financial and budget statistics that have been transmitted over the years. The supervisors are also responsible, but we must also question the European monetary policy carried out in recent years and the responsibility of speculators.

The strong euro policy has severely penalized the Greek economy, which has seen its competitiveness and exports deteriorate to the benefit of the Middle East. His income from shipping, in dollars, has dropped sharply. Since 2001, Greece’s income has eroded dramatically. What was usually done before the euro in the event of a difficult fiscal situation? It was devalued. This devaluation is no longer possible today due to the rules governing the euro. This again poses the question of the flexibility of the European monetary system.

Speculation is another cause of this crisis and it has been cited by some of my colleagues. After attacking banks, speculators are now attacking countries. They took advantage of the European Union’s friction to help Greece – Germany and its chancellor have a great responsibility in this matter – to attack the Greek financial system. And, whenever a rating agency degraded Greece’s rating, the attacks on Greek debt increased as well as the cost of the loan needed to repay it. Therefore, shouldn’t a genuine European public rating agency with serious criteria be set up? Indeed, as has been seen in other crises, rating agencies are economically dependent on the rating companies. They are not above the threshold of speculation. It is important to carry out reforms.

Our country has a special responsibility in this regard. He assumes it with the loan he agrees to, and which is proportional to his financial weight. He also has a special responsibility as he will hold the presidency of the European Union during the second half of this year. In this context, those responsible for the political crisis we are living put at great risk the capacity of Belgium to actually act on European policies and on the necessary regulatory measures.

What will happen in the second half of this year? We hope, in any case, that we will be able, despite the circumstances, to put the issue of the monetary policy of the euro area on the agenda. Based on what is currently happening in Greece, should we not provide for adjustment mechanisms in the face of increasing differences between the different countries of the euro area? What about replacing the single currency with a common currency? How can we effectively combat financial speculation with tax and regulatory systems that discourage it? Will or will we create a public rating agency that would also contribute to better regulation?

These are just a few questions that we must ask ourselves and ask in the context of the Belgian Presidency of the European Union if we want to avoid a repetition of what turns to the Greek tragedy, since other countries appear, today, also threatened by speculation, in particular those who experience strong political instability and in which the rules of law are challenged.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minister, dear colleagues, the time is serious enough to save ourselves from instrumentalizing or importing into our electoral campaign the problems that Greece and especially the Greek people are experiencing. Our first thoughts must go to this population that is massively gathering today in the streets of Athens and other cities of the country to mark its disorder.

We must, of course, be solidary with the Greek people, because this is the vocation of Europe. Regardless of all the technical elements or aspects that can be decorated and on which one can argue to loss of sight, the question raised today is that of the European model we want and of the capacity of that model to react when threats weigh on one of the members of the Union.

Threats are not insignificant. They are of a financial nature and weigh on Greek debt. It has been said and repeated that the origin of these difficulties must be found in the way Greek governance has been applied in recent years and in figures that have not always been presented with the exact truth both to the Greek people and to the other member countries of the European Union.

That does not hold! Today, our role – in any case, this is not the wish of the CDH – is not to reject someone from the European Union on the grounds that they could have made. On the contrary, more than ever, the time is for solidarity, because it is also our European model that is being attacked and it is also the capacity that we will have to respond effectively and correctly. It can also be regretted that these interventions were not faster, due to some landings; in particular, the responsibility of Germany was pointed out.

This is the unfinished European model. Our former chairman of the House, our former prime minister, still recently called for the creation of a true economic government of the European Union.

I think that is to ask the right question. Our monetary policy as well as our fiscal policy, which today is still somewhat the poor parent of the Europe we are building, involve many challenges. The first reflection is that of solidarity and we are implementing it. The second is the medium- and long-term political thinking. Mr. Deputy Prime Minister, I refer in this regard to the responsibility that Belgium will have during its Presidency of the European Union from 1 July, whether the government is in ordinary affairs or not. This will be great in the face of all these fiscal, economic and monetary matters. There too, we will need to demonstrate that our country is able to act as effectively as possible on today’s weakest aspects so that Europe can withstand the pressures it is targeting. More than ever, let us call for this solidarity!

The question that lies on everyone’s lips today is the following. Why should our country in the heavenly name help Greece?

It is very clear that the Greek budget was not drawn up in the most coherent way. It was very clear that the Greek authorities have so far, in the process of drawing up their budgets, been helped by agencies that were later found to be co-responsible for the financial crisis we faced at the beginning of 2008 and of which we continue to bear the consequences. It is clear that the budget deficit in Greece is much higher than expected.

It is therefore easy to ponder: “Our own fault, thick bull.” Let Greece solve its own problems. Such problems arise when countries begin to play in such a high-risk game, and when even governments abandon all financial ethics and eventually become the victims of their attitude. They should not come to complain.

However, it is true what has been challenged, among other things, in the committee but also frequently in press articles. If we do not pay attention and deal with the current situation in Greece and treat it strictly, there is a danger for the other countries that are already speculated against and about which the rumors are widespread. In this case, the GIPS countries, in addition to Greece, are Spain, Portugal and Italy.

Such behavior could even shift speculation against countries to countries that did not actually give in their budgets any incentive to speculative behavior. I think about situations that have previously existed around Britain.

The present draft not only introduces a form of solidarity within Europe, but also introduces a form of stability that is also of interest to our own country. The Greek financial crisis is again a crisis of the banks: not only of the Greek government but also of the Greek banks. Such things are not always presented with so many words, but it is so. Inextricably connected with the Greek banks, we are our own financial institutions.

In fact, it is the second large-scale rescue of our own financial sector. Again, we must not forget that.

In order not to endanger the financial sector and thus not further endanger our European economy, this plan is necessary. That is ⁇ the foundation of what stands out here today: the extensive consequence of the twisted system in which we are. The bilateral loan that our country will grant to Greece is – crazy enough again within that twisted logic, like our loans to the banks in need in our own country – ⁇ a loan that will benefit us financially again in the longer term. Because of the higher interest rates we borrow, this may benefit our country’s budget in the longer term.

Apart from these more formal concerns, there are of course the ordinary people in Greece, the ordinary people of Greece. These are difficult times for those Greeks, not for those banks. Ultimately, they are being saved this time and again by the governments, including by ours. There is the right of the strongest and the shareholders are always on their feet. However, these are difficult times for public finances that have consequences for the ordinary citizen. The interest rates on the Greek debt, it has been said here several times, shave very high peaks: at the beginning of this week already over 10% for 10 years. and unpriced.

Today, finally, after years of mismanagement, the Greek government has taken its responsibilities and prepared a cutting-edge plan that especially affects its population very hard. Better late than never, to say cynically. In early March, she then proposed measures to save 2% of GDP, in addition to the previously adopted plan to reduce the deficit by 4%. There will be an increase in taxes. You know that official betting – it is true that one in two officials came through friend politics: I am well aware of the corruption within the Greek system – will drop, that pensions will be frozen, that there will be an increase in the rate of property tax, that the marginal tax rate will be raised on the highest income. Therefore, the Greek population will have to make a significant contribution.

In recent years, the Greek population has been given an example of a government that has practiced the most unethical ways of doing politics, both in terms of political appointments and in terms of managing its own money. But let’s not go wrong looking at the origin of the financial crisis in Greece.

Not only Greece is to blame. It also depends on our own European monetary policy. That policy has sought a strong euro, successfully, but has also severely punished economies such as that of Greece. It is an economy where the Greeks saw their competitiveness deteriorate, their exports shifted to the Middle East and revenues from charter agreements saw sharp declines. We can see that the country’s income has been sharply reduced since 2001.

In fact, the country would benefit greatly from a devaluation in order to get out of the impasse in which it has fallen for the sake of European monetary policy. Therefore, there is a need – which is a lesson we must learn from this – for a flexible monetary system within our European zone. That should be the next step. We must help Greece, not stigmatize it. It is in our own interest. The opposite would come down to shooting yourself in the foot.

It is the European banks that hold the Greek government debt. 61% of Greece’s public debt is held by French, Swiss and German banks. Together, 83% of Greece’s debt is held in European banks. Don’t help Greece – whoever has other thoughts about it may come forward – means simply the sabotage of our own banks. That would be a very bizarre way of working after saving the banks in the way we have done over the past two years, with billions of euros from government funds and with an increase in our public debt.

It is time for European leaders to take their responsibilities and not take the easy path of populism and demagogy. It is time for them to show what direction they want to go with Europe.

In the context of the European Presidency, our country has an important and special responsibility. It is up to us to put the issue of the monetary policy of the euro area on the agenda. It is up to us to put the issue of an independent rating agency in Europe on the agenda. It is up to us to call a stop to the speculators now targeting the weakest European countries, who have saved their system that has spent so much money on them. It is up to us to ensure that there is a clear and transparent fiscal policy with clear guidelines for all countries within that European zone, so that countries like Greece can no longer complain in the future of keeping such crucial information out of the balance sheet.

As the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Development Cooperation have confirmed in previous committees, it is up to us to work on the Spahntaks, that variant of the Tobint Tax, to ensure that shortages are countered and to fight tax fraud across Europe. It is up to us to restore financial ethics, not only in our own countries but in the entire financial system.

It is also up to us to ask whether adjustment mechanisms are not needed to start the debate on devaluations and the increasingly pronounced differences between the countries of the euro area. Should not the single currency be replaced by a common currency, a more flexible system? These are the questions we must ask ourselves in order to avoid this Greek tragedy that we are experiencing today.

Unfortunately – you do not only notice this lack of enthusiasm in this Chamber – there is no longer a government today to ask those vital questions. In one of the last acts of this Parliament, I ask the future government – which will necessarily consist of the same parties that sit in Parliament today – to ask these questions and not to forget the conclusions of the Banking Committee and the various experts. We have a month and a half until the elections. I ask the future government after that period to put these questions and conclusions clearly on the agenda of the European Union.

We must not forget this. We simply have to work on it because the next crisis will strike our foundations even harder if nothing is done to stop speculation.

Today we are blowing a new bell, even harder than we did before. Let us not waste the precious time that remains – I know this sounds very cynical in a Parliament that is about to dissolve itself, and where the last three years have been continually lost time –. In addition to the bills that ensure that as much as possible remains free from the major interests after the system crashes, let us also ensure that the system cannot crash. Not only in our own country, but also in Europe. I thank you.

First of all, I would like to thank all the political groups that support the draft, including for their work in the committee. On the one hand, the government wants to provide greater support to Greece and on the other hand to ensure greater stability in the eurozone.

Our first thoughts must go to the Greek people who today see the shortcomings of the management that has developed, for many years within this country, with the unfortunately painful consequences that strike it but affect little those responsible who have made a number of decisions in the past.

I would also like to have a thought for the people who lost their lives in the demonstrations that take place in Athens today. It appears that a building was burned by Molotov cocktail jets and that several people inside a banking establishment were found alive. At the moment, at least three people have been killed.

Regarding this Greek issue, I would like to highlight a few points that I discussed in the committee.

First, let’s not be mistaken: the situation in Greece is ⁇ catastrophic in terms of public finances. For many years, the statistics provided by Greece have been false, the deficits are constantly growing and even in recent months, the deficits that were already announced to us around 12% of GDP are now re-estimated beyond 14% of GDP. There is, therefore, obviously a significant drift of the Greek public finances.

Therefore, the first solution to this crisis is a recovery of these public finances by preventing that recovery puts growth and activity in the country itself at risk. I believe that in Belgium we have no lesson to give in this matter but we can share an experience. The deviations known in the 1970s led to such a deficit in the early 1980s and such debt that it was also necessary to take internal measures. It should not be forgotten.

Secondly, it is important to note that a European decision is needed.

I regret that the discussions in the euro area and the European Union to reach a decision have taken weeks. From the beginning, I said on behalf of Belgium that it was necessary to provide support to Greece, not only from the eurozone but also from the IMF, because the IMF has some experience in this area.

I hope that in the coming hours and days a final decision will be made both in the various national parliaments, as well as in Germany, and maybe on 12 May in Finland. At a Friday meeting of representatives of the various countries, together with the President of the European Council, Mr Van Rompuy, a final decision may be made for a real intervention by the euro area and the IMF. It is very important to do that.

There are still doubts about a possible action from Europe in Greece. We need to stop these doubts, because we have seen the evolution in the markets.

Thirdly, let us not be mistaken about the evolution of the eurozone! This area has significant deficits in several countries. In the coming months and years, we will have to regain the path to fiscal balance, not only in Greece, Portugal or Spain, but also in our country and in others. We are committed to this through a stability program. This rigorous programme to return to budgetary balance must be continued with the desire to support growth, create and safeguard jobs, but also to sanitize the state finances. We have not come out of the financial crisis, nor of the economic and social crisis, and ⁇ not of the crisis of public finances. There is still not much work on this subject.

As part of the preparations for the Belgian Presidency, I had the opportunity to receive the Commissioner for Monetary Affairs, Olli Rehn, and the Commissioner for the Financial Sector, Michel Barnier. With regard to their areas, the Belgian Presidency will have to work in two directions. On the one hand, there will be a reinforcement of budgetary monitoring measures. The Stability and Growth Pact will be strengthened by increasing Eurostat’s capacity for action as well as the European Commission’s means of action and monitoring. Let us not be mistaken! This means a need to take strong fiscal measures in many European countries.

With regard to financial services, I hope that, in the coming hours, the Senate will vote on the draft new financial architecture and control of the financial sector in Belgium as the crisis laws that have been prepared and adopted by the House. From July, I hope that we can implement measures related to investment funds, such as hedge funds, and supervisory measures that we have unfortunately not been able to implement in recent weeks, at the request of the Spanish and British governments. However, the intention to go in this direction is firm. Similarly, with regard to rating agencies, it is clear that Belgium will support Commissioner Barnier’s approach to establishing a European rating agency. We will see under what conditions. Again, this debate is difficult with a number of European governments. However, it should be possible to establish a European rating agency. This is one of the major commitments.

Finally, as I announced to the social partners and all stakeholders of the associative world in Belgium during the preparation of the Belgian presidency, from July, the debate on other possible sources of financing in terms of policy development in Europe will be on the table, whether it is financial transactions, carbon tax or CO2 or other types of mechanisms. It is simply about convincing a number of colleagues.

Mr Van der Maelen has also already recalled the law on the Tobint Tax, with its entry into force from the approval in all European countries. So far, I have advocated such a mechanism at the European level, unanimously in Belgium but without real support from other countries. With the current financial crisis, there may be a possibility for a more positive approach to such a proposal.

This is what I wanted to tell you. I wanted to thank you for the approach.

I will further clarify that the credits will be released in terms of loans to the Greek Republic only on the basis of a joint decision of the Eurozone States and the Monetary Fund; a monitoring will be carried out quarter by quarter and the effective implementation of the plan decided by the Greek Government will result in the gradual release of the funds. Otherwise, further discussions should be conducted by the European Commission, the Central Bank and the Monetary Fund with the Greek authorities.

Of course, there will still be a lot of work to be done in the context of the banking, financial and even public finances crisis, but let’s not be mistaken: there is still important work to restore competitiveness in European states that have defeated in terms of competitiveness and need to straighten the barrier; there will also be important work in public finances to return to a healthier situation. Belgium is aware of this situation, has experienced a dramatic experience in this area: no one wants to fall back into these troubles in the months and years to come.

Thank you to all the groups that decided to support this project.