Proposition 51K2043

Budget des voies et moyens pour l'année budgétaire 2006.

General information ¶

Submitted by

PS | SP MR Open Vld Vooruit Purple Ⅰ

Submission date

Nov. 3, 2005

Official page

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Status

Adopted

Requirement

Simple

Subjects

budget national budget

Voting ¶

Voted to adopt

Vooruit PS | SP Open Vld MR

Voted to reject

CD&V Ecolo LE FN VB

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Discussion ¶

Dec. 15, 2005 | Plenary session (Chamber of representatives)

Full source

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minister, Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to draw attention to a number of issues from various sections of the Internal Affairs section.

The first point concerns asylum policy and foreign law. I think our position on this issue is well known, Mr. Minister. I refer to Mr. Claes’s interpellation on this subject last time in the committee.

With regard to civil and private security, a multidisciplinary approach to security is ⁇ important. We all know that in the meantime. After all, security is a matter of everyone. This also applies to every approach and every component of the safety issue. Various actors are important in the approach to safety. Mr. Minister, that you also refer to the importance of private partners in your policy note, we find a very positive signal. That this is extremely important in the context of prevention policy cannot be denied.

Citizens and entrepreneurs can all make a positive contribution to effectively enhance the safety of our homes and our ⁇ and contribute to removing the subjective sense of insecurity. You also know in it my pony of neighborhood information networks in which citizens make a very positive contribution in general sense of security and my concern for their support and appreciation for the many volunteers who work there.

Our disappointment was great when we noticed that of the promised tax benefits for individuals who make security investments nothing is to be noticed in your note. You promised once again that you would insist on the Minister of Budget for additional resources to ⁇ this anyway. Unfortunately, so far you have not succeeded in this. So it remains with promises that have been communicated to the citizen. Given the absence of this measure in your policy note, we will therefore submit our own bill on tax deduction for private security investments back to the competent Chamber committee for discussion. We hope that you will support this, Mr. Minister.

In that proposal, we also take into account investments in fire safety. With this, we are seamlessly aligned with the reform of the fire services. The final report of Governor Paul has also been submitted to the Minister. From the last explanations of the governor of Antwerp, we recall above all that there is still no view of the financial zero measurement and the risk analysis. As we have already made clear, CD&V requires first and foremost a modernization of the fire department. We absolutely do not wish to break with the past.

Priority should be given to removing black spots in emergency services and improving the status of professional firefighters and volunteers. The plans that have been made so far with regard to the firefighters, however, cause us some fear. A minimum occupation of aid posts by eleven people, we believe, inevitably means the end of the full Volunteer Corps. Then we go to mixed corpses as the smallest base. The large areas, for example, will make this volunteer work even more foolish. However, we think that it is precisely the involvement, recognizability and appreciation from the environment for the volunteers that justifies a large part of their commitment. That’s why they do it for a piece. Please continue to foster this voluntary work, even if it is only in the interest of the fire services and the safety of citizens in general.

Finally, we would like to insist once again on initiating the consultation with the Minister of Health in order to move to emergency zones in the future, which will also include the medical emergency services and the two are vaccinated together. I would also like to take this opportunity to make a few comments regarding the police. In recent years, the police reform, as we all know, has had a great impact and demanded a lot of energy and effort from many, not least many people on the ground who try to realize the integration police guard every day. The choice made at the time to organize the police services on two levels now proves its validity. We will all recognize this. At the operational level, this reform is now a fact. The merger of the different corpses offers a number of possibilities that did not exist before and the staff also makes a lot of effort every day.

However, as we have already stated in the committee, we urge a number of measures to be taken to improve the availability and service of the local police in the future. Even if we say that the police reform is currently operational, that does not mean that everything is currently cake and egg and that there are no other things that need to be improved. I am speaking, among other things, about the expansion of the tasks of the assistant staff, the adaptation of the discipline statute and the revision of the staff statute in general. We hope, Mr. Minister, that you, as promised, will quickly submit the necessary draft for treatment.

I would also like to point out a number of other problem points. Thus, the functioning of the CDVU remains problematic. This is also known to you. Furthermore, there are the negative effects of CALogization on the implementation of the integration and support mechanisms. Indeed, the removal of certain operational forces carrying out administrative or logistical tasks has resulted in a loss of know-how. The CALog insulation undoubtedly reduces the impact power of the specialized services here and there. Mr. Minister, I think you are well aware of this because we can soon expect the bill that you will grant the members of the CALog framework certain powers of judicial police officer to be discussed in the committee. As regards the Intervention Corps, we would like to point out once again that this Corps is not filled in the same way in every province — you know that too — and that there is an assessment there.

I repeat the criticism that it has not been possible to conduct a debate around the crime rates. In this regard, however, I have noted in the committee that you put this in perspective.

Finally, a brief comment concerning your proposal on electoral legislation in connection with the greater recruitment base of the assistant seats. It is known to us that recruiting sufficient subsidiaries is sometimes problematic. You therefore announced an amendment to the Electoral Code with regard to the appointment of the assistants. You talked about the 18-year-olds, but I suspect you meant a larger group, especially the 18- to 60-year-olds. However, you have not specified at all how you will do that then. Will this happen in the case of a lot draw, by analogy of the lot draw for an assistant jury?

We are waiting for your designs on this subject. In any case, we find your idea of recruiting from a larger group positive and we will support your proposal. However, we hope that you will take advantage of the opportunity to implement an administrative simplification for the recruitment of the assistants. We submitted a bill in this regard and also mentioned the provision that only one member per family can be called as an assistant. I think you can perfectly use the opportunity to arrange that too and we hope that you will do so.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minister, Ladies and Gentlemen, as part of our debate today, I will address two aspects concerning Mr. Speaker’s competence. The Minister Dewael.

Regarding civil security, the government has kept its promise to increase the budget of this organic division for several years. The civil security sector, vital for the safety of our fellow citizens, is thus refinanced by more than 5% by the federal, on your initiative, Mr. Minister. A first effort had already been devoted last year. We can therefore welcome the continuity of the effort undertaken on your initiative. We would like to congratulate you.

However, financial studies show that the cost of these services, and more specifically of regional fire services, is steadily increasing. Analysis by Dexia shows that the surplus costs and increases in recent years far outweigh the framework for a normal increase in expenditure for municipalities. More than 90% of the expenditure for fire services is borne by the municipalities. That is why the Union of Cities and Municipalities demands a greater effort on the part of the federal to bear the cost of these services.

Mr. Minister, you will agree with us that this situation is no longer sustainable given the municipal finances. You will fully understand the message that has been sent to you: they are no longer ready to bear additional costs as part of the reform project.

This is not the time to start the analysis of this reform project; it will come in time and time. We are coming to the end of the work and we can look forward to the Paulus committee coming up with very concrete proposals. Even if we occasionally hear discordant voices about the unanimity announced regarding the results of this commission, we can be convinced of the quality of the work carried out.

It would also be worth remembering that the announcement of this 5% increase, although we can look forward to it – and we congratulate you again – made a flop at the level of fire services, as they hoped much more. It is now up to you to set a very precise timing of your future steps towards these services, just as it is up to you to tell us what you intend to undertake in relation to the financing of these services. You have announced and repeatedly repeated to us that the surplus costs incurred by the reform would be borne by the state and not the municipalities. This element is important. by

The government agreement provides for alternative financing possibilities. This includes the intervention of insurance companies. by

Should we recall that these companies have experienced an increase in their turnover for "fire" contracts of more than 300 million euros in 4 years while the "sinister" charge no longer reaches 50% of this amount? Therefore, we ask ourselves about the possibility of applying for fire services. We will try to raise additional resources in this context. We also insist on the need for greater participation of those who create risks; I think, for example, in road or rail transport.

I come to the second subject of my speech, security contracts.

You know, our party is attached to a municipal policy of prevention, that is to say, to the durability of security and prevention contracts. These promote a harmonious cohabitation of all citizens in our communes, regardless of their social condition and the neighborhood where they live. The Prime Minister welcomed this, a few weeks ago, by receiving the actors of prevention. These educators, these social workers do an excellent job. Given what has happened in France recently, we can estimate that we have probably made the right choices at the right time and that the devices set up work very well. We must encourage them. This, of course, requires resources. by

What was not our surprise when we found that this year, once again, the security contract budget was not indexed! This means that the latter has actually decreased, in particular due to the increase in operating costs, the price index and personnel costs. This is unacceptable. Indeed, this weakens the prevention arrangements of this sector while it needs stability and additional resources. This absence of indexation is contradictory to the recent positive statements of the Prime Minister on security and prevention contracts and to the excellent work done by the various actors in this sector. by

Mr. Minister, in the committee, during the discussion of the budget, in response to a question from my excellent colleague, André Frédéric, you were committed to revising the overall budget of security contracts and to extend them. I would like to know what the exact deadlines for this matter are.

In addition, I would like to propose to the government the indexation of security and prevention contracts in the next budget adjustment. It would be better than nothing! We would like you to confirm that the 2006 indexation of security contracts is indeed planned. A recapture of previous years may also be considered.

My dear colleagues, Ms. Galant told me that she would be late. by

Mr Boukourna, at the beginning of the session, your oral question, as well as that of Mrs Nagy, had been included in the budget discussion. After your speech, Ms. Nagy will take the floor. Mr Bourkourna, I give you the floor as part of the general discussion of the "Interior" part of the Budget. Develop the points you would like to see addressed, and especially the question that I had just postponed.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minister, dear colleagues, for several days, the press has revealed to the general public the story of a young journalist of Mongolian nationality and her son, whom the authorities expelled from Belgian territory, and this after five years of living in Belgium.

You are not without knowing that, in her country, this girl and her son are at risk. Nevertheless, many human rights associations as well as the International Federation of Journalists had intervened in their favour to draw your attention in order to demonstrate to the competent authorities the serious dangers this journalist faces in his country. I recall that she has written several articles denouncing the discrimination that reigns there.

Other problems also arise. We think here of the suicide of a Bangladesh citizen in a closed centre in Limburg on Thursday, December 8, last year. It appears that this person had attempted to put an end to his days for the first time following the refusal of his asylum application last November. Unfortunately for him, no psychological assistance, no follow-up would have been provided.

According to the information I have, the Foreign Office seems to have changed its policy in terms of extending the order to leave the territory. From now on, an extension of the order to leave the territory will only be granted if a date is fixed for a return assisted by the International Organization for Migration. It should therefore be understood that there would no longer be an extension for persons who are unable to return to their country for various reasons, including war or security. This will be the case for Somali citizens from 1 January. They will simply not know where to go. You know the situation in Somalia, which is not the only country that is experiencing this war situation.

Finally, I must remind you of the worrying situation of the many children detained in closed centres. They would be about sixty now. How many of them will spend the next closed holidays? The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) has recently reacted firmly against this type of practices that are contrary to the International Convention on the Rights of the Child in many points.

Together with other parliamentarians, I have submitted a resolution and a bill to find an alternative to this practice that condemns us in the eyes of the international community.

In relation to these facts, several questions arise. With regard to Ms. Tserensodnom and her son, could you comment on their current situation and their security in Mongolia?

With regard to the suicide I mentioned, do you not think it would be appropriate to investigate this fact? What about the psychological follow-up of people who are denied asylum? Finally, confirm the change in the policy of the Foreign Office to no longer extend orders to leave the territory in the cases mentioned above.

Mr. Minister, let us express our deep concern for these facts, but also, in general, we ask ourselves about the conditions of expulsion and detention of undocumented persons. It is urgent, Mr. Minister, to react against the accumulation of these incidents and dramas in Belgium, a democratic, modern, open and deeply respectful country of human rights and human condition. I am surprised that these cases happen now, at a time when the government has agreed on the subsidiary protection status that ⁇ could have been granted to the people I just mentioned.

Mr. Minister, I would also like to ask you about the case of Mrs. Tserensodnom, a Mongolian journalist who was expelled on December 11, last year. Can you give me an explanation regarding the context of this case, which I find quite exemplary in the way these issues are dealt with in Belgium?

Ms. Tserensodnom and her 10-year-old son fled Mongolia and arrived in Belgium in October 2000. In March 2001, they filed an asylum application. His son will complete five primary years in Eupen and then in Verviers, where he will reside with his mother. He will be first in class and will take music lessons. Mother and son will be bound by friendship with school children and parents.

Mrs Tserensodnom’s application for asylum was handled on 21 December 2001; she was dismissed as admissible to her application for asylum but her lawyer brought an annulment appeal before the State Council against the negative decision of the CGRA.

So far, no decision has been made by the State Council, while in the meantime, she has already been expelled.

Like my colleague Mr. Boukourna meant it, the application for asylum was justified by her situation as a journalist, by the facts she had to know in her country as a journalist, the writings she had produced and information she had been able to gather, as well as by an attack of which she would have been the target. In addition to Amnesty International’s positions, I would like to remind you that the International Federation of Journalists (FIJ) was telling you that Ms. Tserensodnom was at real risk if she returned to Mongolia in the current state of affairs and sent you a letter dated November 22, which gives an important element. The FIJ told you this: “Our request does not seem disproportionate in view of the risks that Mrs. Tserensodnom carries in her country of origin, in particular in a rule of law respecting the freedom of the press such as Belgium.”

There was a decision of the Office, followed by that of the CGRA and an appeal still during. However, some of the objections raised appear to me to be relevant in the examination of this case. Furthermore, Ms. Hana Tserensodnom lodged a residence application based on Article 9(3) on 3 August 2005. While no decision had been made by either the State Council or the Office of Foreigners regarding her application for residence and while this lady and her child had resided in Belgium for almost five years without causing any problem, she is arrested by the police and taken the same day with her son to the closed centre of Melsbroek to be subsequently transferred to 127bis where she stayed with her child for four months. We find the problem of the imprisonment of children since this little boy spent four months in a closed center, which I think exemplifies the situation. by

The application for regularization was rejected on 7 November 2005 and his lawyer was notified without knowing the reasons for the refusal. A second application for regularization is introduced on 23 November 2005 based mainly on the child’s health problems: he is affected by a rheumatoid purpurin that will force him to a two-month hospital stay and six months in a wheelchair. He should regularly undergo renal examinations to avoid leading to severe renal failure. The request was also based on the integration of the mother and child during their five-year stay in Belgium, sufficiently demonstrated in their file. by

Mr. Minister, without wanting to interfere with a decision that is not my responsibility to make, but that I can comment, questions may arise about this case and I would like you to provide me with clarifications on the following points.

1 of 1. Are you aware of the fate that was reserved for Hana and her child when they arrived in Mongolia? By whom were they welcomed? Where are they currently? Is Hana free or in custody?

2 of 2. While you are currently finalising a bill aimed at improving the asylum procedure and reforming the State Council, so that the procedure provides for a suspensive appeal, even if it is simpler and less lengthy, do you consider it normal to proceed with the expulsion of a woman and her child who have not been able to benefit from a quality asylum procedure, an effective appeal and an examination of their file by the State Council?

You argue that the purpose of your reform project is, among other things, to respect the Conka judgment (right to an effective remedy). At the same time, your administration is rushing to expel a journalist who has not had access to this effective remedy and who, in addition, is a citizen of a State where journalists are notoriously persecuted.

3 of 3. Do you consider it normal to expel a person on request for a residence permit without having been ruled on his application, while medical and humanitarian reasons are invoked and without the Court of Cassation being able to examine his appeal? In the meantime, she was able to do so, but she has, as usual, noted a lack of interest in this file. However, the question concerns the fact that no decision has been taken on the application for a residence permit (Article 9, paragraph 3).

4 of 4. Wouldn’t it be time to seriously consider the question of the right of residence of persons victims of procedural delays? In the case we are concerned, the case has been under consideration for five years.

You too have exceeded the time given to you. The latter speaker will be Mrs. Galant. I will then invite Mr. the Minister to answer with as much precision as possible to questions referring to the debate on the budget.

I sent your questions to the Minister, since I had them.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minister, within the framework of the 2006 budget, the MR group will with conviction support the project of the Minister of the Interior. I would like to express here the position of the MR Group on the main themes highlighted in the Minister’s General Policy Note.

The electronic identity card has been the subject of many debates in the interior committee. Mr. Minister, my group has asked you several times on this subject. Today, we can be satisfied with the financial and organizational guarantees offered to the municipalities, as well as the overall success of the company. This while, in the background, we resolutely support the company and look forward to future developments that it makes possible.

The timing has also been considerably accelerated for the benefit of the citizen. I would like to congratulate you on the management of this matter.

However, a few specific questions seem to have to be asked. They relate to the idea suggested in last year’s general policy note to increase the number of information on the electronic identity card.

The Minister talked about the driver’s license or the SIS card. These projects are no longer included in the 2006 note. However, in the interests of simplifying administrative procedures, they seemed interesting. As a reminder, a proposal by Richard Fournaux proposes the addition of data on organ donation and blood group. I myself submitted a proposal to incorporate the driver’s license on the electronic identity card.

I would like to know your position on these two initiatives.

With regard to the elections, and always with regard to the modernization of the services offered to citizens, I would like to return to the automated voting. by

As you know, the MR group supports this device by never forgetting that it must help citizens and not complicate their lives. Yes, therefore, to the maintenance of the automated vote, but ⁇ it is appropriate, as provided by the government agreement, that the voter is informed by a letter accompanying the letter of motivation of the exact course of the electronic vote. This was not done in 2004.

I also find it important, as we think about replacing the equipment, to relay here the expectations of my Brussels colleagues. The regional elections in Brussels offer more than 89 candidates to choose the voters. It is a fact that today’s small screens struggle to accomplish this task, at the expense of equality among candidates. I really believe that ad hoc solutions should be proposed to the Brussels municipalities.

In the case of the vote of the Belgians abroad, Mr. Minister, you announced last year your intention to remedy childhood diseases of the reference legislation. The Committee has submitted a proposal in this regard. It will need to be discussed before the next federal election and, why not, expand the reflection on the vote of the Belgians from abroad for the regional elections.

This is the anticipated reform of the asylum procedure. Foreign dispute deserves a solution; you sketch one in your general policy note. In other words, I think it is the subject of a preliminary bill that has received government approval.

What is the timing of this case? It is important today to move forward in this matter as the current asylum procedure, due to its inertia, no longer allows to respond with the desired speed to the applicants. It also greatly complicates the proper application of all of our laws governing the rights and obligations of foreigners.

We also support your commitments to combat white marriages and family reunification fraud. Your recent circular inviting civil status officers to exchange information on complacency marriage attempt was expected. We have voted for your latest proposal on this subject. However, it will need to go further in the perspective of the new logic of the asylum procedure.

Regarding civil security, I would like to recall the budget effort that has been ongoing since last year. We are now awaiting the final conclusions of the Paulus committee and the risk analysis. The financing of the reform will be at the center of our concerns. It will not be possible to re-edit approximations that are ongoing in the current contribution system.

Finally, we are pleased to see the provisions relating to the criteria for activation of the calamity fund returned to the profession. This has been asked several times by my group. It is clear that the current functioning of the Fund provides for intervention criteria not in accordance with the typicity of microclimate phenomena, which are spreading more and more frequently across the country. In essence, we know that two criteria must be met. On the one hand, the phenomenon must be exceptional in the sense of the figures held by the IRM station and, on the other hand, the damage must amount to more than 1.250.000 euros. In the case of microphenomena, it happens that the measurement stations record very different figures from those collected at the venue of events. The amount of damage is also problematic as the current figure is hardly accessible for small, isolated rural municipalities. We will return to the committee on the state of progress of your work on this subject.

Mr. Speaker, colleagues, first of all, I would like to extend a word of praise to the rapporteur, because we think we have an excellent report. There were many questions asked in the committee meeting, which I answered all in the committee meeting. I had announced that I would answer a number of questions through the report. I think all stakeholders in the committee have received responses to their comments.

Several points have now been raised again in the plenary session. I will answer them systematically, in order of the question question.

Ms Schryvers has once again highlighted the need to introduce tax deductibility for private security investments. I replied in the committee that the current system for self-employed persons effectively provides for an interesting tax deductibility, but that, unfortunately, it is still insufficiently applied in practice. I think it is therefore important, after we have increased the tax deductibility for self-employed persons, to ⁇ further promote the measure. In this context, I have also appealed to the self-employed organisations, so that they might inform their members even more.

I would like to do the same for private individuals. There is no need for additional money, Mrs Schryvers, because tax deductibility costs nothing to my budget. Fiscal deductibility is, of course, the burden of the public resources, and there the shoe knocked, because the opinions are quite divergent about the correct budgetary impact. For this reason, in the preparation of the budget, we said that we would re-examine the measure in the context of budgetary control, in order to determine exactly what the effect of the system would be on the revenues, in particular the incomes of deficit. In 2006, it costs nothing. Even if we implement that measure, in 2006 there is no budgetary effect. After, of course, once that measure will come at cross-speed, we must be able to frame that in a multi-year budgetary perspective.

The discussion on this subject, which we held in the committee meeting, is also linked to the question of Mr Maene on the indexation of prevention contracts. That measure costs money and is also therefore, due to its budgetary impact, shifted to budgetary control.

When we held the mini-debate about the riots that took place in France and in much less extent in our country, I did not place my praise under chairs or benches to the attention of the many street corner workers who managed, in a very inventive way, to prevent that spark from passing through.

So I think we need to make adjustments to the prevention contracts. We should not index them alone, budgetarily seen. I think it would be useful to have prevention contracts run over a longer term, for example. In the current system, contracts should be renewed annually. I think a multi-year perspective on this issue would be appropriate.

A longer term for the prevention contracts and ⁇ even less burden for the cities and municipalities, are therefore useful, because I think that so many conditions are imposed today that some municipal officials are mainly engaged in filling out papers and forms for the attention of my department. The indexation of contracts also comes back to budgetary control.

Ms. Schryvers also asked questions about the civil security reform. Let me be clear, there was another meeting of the committee-Paulus last week. The final meeting will take place on 3 January. On 20 January there will be a final meeting, in which the committee will conclude its work and in which I will be delivered the report of the committee-Paulus on civil security reform. There were indeed a few missing elements. I refer to the zero measurement, which is mentioned. Of course, risk analysis and university reporting should also be added to the report.

Colleagues, I have explicitly argued in the committee that we are not only working on a fundamental reform, but that in the meantime we are also allocating more resources to firefighters and civil security. We do this within the framework of what I have always called a kind of double-track policy. In the fundamental reform, I take care not to fall again into the mistakes of the past concerning the police reform and ⁇ not to hunt them too quickly through the Parliament. I want sufficient support from the mayors, from the cities and municipalities, because they must contribute significantly to this reform.

I said in the committee that the financing and additional costs of that reform are a responsibility of the federal government. However, I have also added that there are large discrepancies between the municipalities in what the municipalities spend on firefighters and Civil Safety in general. Therefore, zero measurement is necessary. There are major discrepancies today. If every citizen is entitled to a civil security service, it is also not more than normal that the different municipalities make approximately the same effort in this regard. It no longer matters that some municipalities do not give money for it, because a neighboring municipality will do so. We need to equalize the lat.

If we see that today 90% of the costs of firefighters are already borne by the cities and municipalities, then we need to do two things. First, the additional costs of the reform in a multiannual plan should be borne by the federal government. Secondly, I think that we should take advantage of the opportunity to put the accounts of the various municipal governments side by side and to equalize the proverbial lat.

In anticipation of the fundamental reform — it would not be appropriate to spend a few months and maybe even a few years — budgetary efforts are already taking place in the field of Civil Security. You know the amounts for the investment. Following the increase last year, in 2005, i.e., by 3.5 million euros, we have again allocated 5 million euros for investment for next year.

That gives in 2006 a total amount of commitment credits for equipment, of 16.2 million euros. This is a first example.

A second example is the training. I said that next year there would be 1 million euros more for training, which for 2006 means another increase of 66,000 euros.

We also talked about the Knowledge Center.

In other words, we follow two tracks. The first step is fundamental reform. I want the municipal governments to have the opportunity to speak after the next year’s elections. We need legitimate governments. However, we cannot deal with this before the municipal elections. Secondly, we need to cut a tooth on budget because over the years too little has been invested in firefighters. That’s why I reserve the lion’s share of the annual increase that was allocated to me in the government agreement again every year for civil security.

Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary, Mr. Secretary.

One aspect which, as far as I know, has not been addressed so far too extensively, concerns the status of firefighters. This is somewhat different from the reform. Not only the professional firefighters and — women, but especially the volunteers have been asking for this for so many years. At that point, again and again, despite the intentions announced by Mr. Duquesne at the time, one remains hungry. We find nothing of that, while without necessarily linking it to the global reforms, immediate work could be made of it.

We can work on this immediately. Collega Tant, for the completeness of my argument I would like to tell you that we agree on the fact that the fire department will also continue to work with two statutes, professionals and volunteers in the future. We must cherish the volunteers. If we lose that, after all, there is no more firefighting as it now works properly.

Measures have been taken in light of what I call my two-track policy. I have made the contributions of the volunteers taxally much more attractive. There was also a liability scheme that was unfair because it was heavier for volunteers than for professional firefighters. I put that lat right now. Measures have been taken for the staff. I will contact the trade unions on Monday in connection with their questions and claims regarding the professional firefighters.

I could also say that I have the reform and in expectation do nothing. No, the reform will address the statute in a fundamental way, but as long as we wait for it, we will remedy a number of overwhelming injustice. One of the biggest problems will be how we can continue to reconcile the increasing pressure to professionalize, including in training, with the volunteer status and how will those people be sufficiently available? In other words, it is about the flexibility that an employer will need to allow the volunteers to function.

This should be discussed with the business and employers. It is not enough to have volunteers. When they need to intervene, they must also be made available by their employer.

I will be very brief, Mr. Minister. The option of keeping both pistes side by side, the professionals and the volunteers, I fully endorse. I think you have indeed made a few attempts to get some bit of legs, including in terms of fees. I would like to ask you not to wait for the rest of the statute until there is sufficient consensus in our country on the global reform. I think the problem is urgent. The solution to the problem has been so often put in the prospect. In the long run, this threatens to lead to some discouragement.

As for your act of faith in the volunteers, I would like to reinforce it. I am deeply convinced that, if one wants to give opportunities in a society for generosity and solidarity in the immediate sense of the word, namely with respect to people who are in a risk situation, firefighters and civil protection are an excellent tool for this purpose. The preservation of the volunteers in the fire department is actually an essential element in terms of the quality of our society. We talk a lot about acidification. This is also partly due to the fact that sometimes too few opportunities are created in our society to come up directly for each other. Firefighters are an excellent example of this.

I have nothing to say, but you know my opinion.

If we discuss the fundamental reform in the committee, colleague Tant will of course come to the committee for domestic affairs to put his strong shoulders on it.

As far as police reform is concerned, Mrs. Schryvers will not hurt me when I say that we have talked extensively about it. You have made a suggestion or expressed a concern regarding the "CaLog-isering". I take that with me.

In terms of electoral legislation, I am also pleased, Mrs. Schryvers, that you are pleased with our option of removing the age limit of 30 years for sidesitters. If one has to participate in democracy, I would personally prefer to speak of a voting right rather than a voting duty. We have seen in the Flemish Parliament that colleague Sauwens at some point — but this was ⁇ the most individual expression of the most individual emotion — also advocated for a right to vote. A swallow does not make the spring, Mrs. Schryvers. If there is an election duty from the age of 18, why do you have to be 30 years old to be able to fulfill the role of assistant? This rule has grown historically.

My surprise was great when I heard a first point of view from your group where one wanted to raise the age to 40 years. Then I understood nothing more. 18 years is a good option. Mrs. Van der Auwera may have meant that one should be able to respect young families and if one of the two is called to be assistant, that the other should be able to be involved with the children. I think we fully understand each other in this regard. From the smile on your two faces, I assume that this incident has been attached.

Wat de vragen van de heer Maene betreft, heb ik geantwoord op de problematiek van de financiering van de Civiele Veiligheid. I also said that during the budget control we would try to fix the indexation for prevention contracts. I come now tot de questions inzake of uitwijzing van een Mongoolse journalist.

You know, I have nothing against journalists in general. However, the law must be applied. When someone has exhausted his procedure, then there are several options.

The person concerned can return voluntarily and this possibility still carries away my preference. We can do this in an organized way, even with support. If someone fails to leave voluntarily — we have talked about this so often in the committee — then a number of other scenarios must be addressed. There is the forced return, the return through an escort, the forced repatriation through the so-called secure flights.

Let it be clear once and for all that my heart does not go out to these solutions. If someone for any reason — it is not the minister who makes the decision, but independent asylum authorities — gets a negative decision, then the implacable consequence is that he or she must leave the country. Anyone who does not voluntarily return but hides and for years can organize his stay in our country in an illegal way, should know that he cannot purge any rights from that illegality. Let me clarify this before the room. If someone, due to the negligence of the asylum authorities, has to wait four to five years for a judgment, then I can apply the individual possibility that the law gives me to regularize such a case. A person, however, who is excluded for a period of six to seven months and hides for months and months and orders him to leave the country every time, cannot seize any rights from that period of illegality.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a small incision.

He will come!

First, I would like to mention the general principles.

Mr. Minister, let us also recall that Belgium was condemned because there was no suspensive appeal and that the procedure will not be completed until the appeal has been filed.

Mr. Speaker, I come to an individual case, although it is annoying to have to intervene casuistically in a plenary session of the Chamber. However, the questions were asked during the current session. So I come back to it now. It is a case for which the application for asylum has been processed quickly.

The application was submitted on 27 October 2000 and a decision of the CGRA was made on 21 December 2001. The person concerned was ordered to leave the territory on 3 August 2005. Following a police check, she was detained.

The applicant lodged an appeal in the State Council on 5 August 2005 with a complaint for the suspension in extreme urgency, which the State Council rejected on 10 August 2005.

The person concerned has submitted two applications for a residence permit based on Article 9.3. The first was found inadmissible due to the absence of an exceptional circumstance and the second was the subject of a decision not to be taken into account. On 20 November, the applicant refused to be repatriated and filed a request for release. On 8 December, the Accusation Chamber of the Liège Court of Appeal confirmed his continued detention.

On December 11, the affected woman and her son were repatriated. That is the factual verloop van de procedure.

There was a request for asylum, which was quickly handled. The person concerned is ordered to leave the country, but puts that order by his side. The person concerned plunges into the “illegality”. At the moment she is arrested during a police check, she exhausts her rights.

Ms Nagy must not, however, say that the rights in the referred file were neglected. The person concerned has, in fact, submitted a request on the basis of Article 9, paragraph 3 twice. She went to the State Council, where her request was rejected. In other words, the rights were exhausted.

I do not know on what basis Ms. Nagy claims that an asylum seeker can remain in Belgium after four or five years of hiding. In that case, Belgium will become the most attractive country in the world. We cannot do that. As long as I sit on this chair, I will continue to repeat this principle.

I understand well that we all have humanitarian aspects. That would I also still want to say to Mr. Boukourna. There is always monitoring. The Commissioner-General for Refugees shall proactively examine, in all its decisions, the possibility of return of the foreigner who is denied refugee status. You know it, it is what is called the “non-reconduit clause”.

Secondly, the Foreign Office respects the opinions of the Commissioner-General.

Third, the Office of Foreigners also follows the situation in the different countries of origin. In other words, if an asylum application is rejected and there is a rejection, then there is always an investigation and an opinion whether that rejection can happen, taking into account the situation on the ground. Additional investigations are often conducted through our diplomatic and consular channels.

I would like to remind you for a moment of the situation of the Afghans, two years ago, when I decided to confirm their non-recognition as political refugees, but for a certain period of time not to allow the deportation to continue, taking into account the situation on the ground. So I think, Mr. Speaker, that in terms of asylum and foreign policy, we are indeed conducting a correct policy. That policy must be correct in applying and respecting a number of principles. At the same time, it is a humanitarian policy because, to the extent possible, this type of argument is always taken into account. I think the best proof of this is that I’m probably too hard for one and maybe too soft for the other. I think we are taking a good course in this regard.

We have now decided on a number of adjustments in the Council of Ministers. We have also decided to strengthen the possibilities for family reunification. In this way we comply with a European Union Directive.

CD&V also approved the draft in connection with the hypocritic marriages last week. I read that, according to Ms. Lanjri, family reunification is not going far enough and that citizenship should be introduced in this area. However, citizenship is a competence of the Communities and in this regard you must therefore, as regards Flanders, see my policy as complementary to what is done in the field of compulsory integration by the competent Flemish government.

Finally, I would like to comment on a number of points put forward by Mrs. Galant.

Mr. Minister, please apologize, normally a response had to be given to your answer to the questions asked by Mr. Minister. Boukourna and Mrs. Nagy. So I would like to let them react before you answer the questions asked by Ms. Galant.

Mr President Mr. The Minister plays the appeal. However, the appeal on the substance to the State Council was not settled until the journalist was expelled. A problem arises not at the level of the appeal in extreme urgency but at the level of the appeal on the substance.

Furthermore, the second request for examination under Article 9.3 was also not settled before the person was expelled. This is where the difficulty arises. The new amendment introduced by the reform of the asylum law creates an effective remedy in order to comply with the Conka judgment. As long as the reform is implemented, there is a problem in terms of procedure.

I would like to thank Mr. President. The Minister for his answers.

It is true that individual cases do not have to be addressed here. Nevertheless, as I said recently, our concerns originated in various elements, ⁇ in the way these problems are managed.

Again, I would like to point out the concomitance of these events. The progress made by the government and the agreement obtained by the government under the subsidiary protection status make me think that this unfortunate event is a wasted opportunity. Everyone I mentioned earlier would normally have claimed to benefit from this status.

Mr Boukourna refers to the B status, the subsidiary protection. It is also a directive of the European Union, but the asylum authorities already apply that directive de facto. Again, when it comes to decisions by asylum authorities — you know, Mr. Speaker — I am always very careful to comment. One must know what one wants. Either one has independent asylum authorities and one respects those decisions, or one thinks that the minister must make those decisions, but then, of course, one comes into a political decision making. In this case, I consider that the judgment of the State Council, to which Ms Nagy refers, should not have been waited because an appeal to the State Council in that regard does not have a suspensive effect. There is no suspensive effect.

I heard what you said, Mr. Minister. I sat in my office listening.

Is it because you came here because I quoted you?

Because you are misrepresenting things, Mr. Minister. You know that too well. Their

You say that citizenship is a Flemish matter and that it is wrong to link it to it. Of course, citizenship is a Flemish matter, Mr. Minister. I also know that, but that one can link the condition of taking citizenship courses to the residence permit, is also evident. This is already being applied in the Netherlands. In the Netherlands, we are going one step further. In the Netherlands, this is not only linked to the residence permit. In the Netherlands, in the future, one will even go so far that one must learn Dutch in the country of origin. I do not want to go so far.

Mr. Minister, your colleague and party colleague, Minister Marino Cologne, is a requesting party to link this with the residence permit. After all, he notices that with citizenship courses one can ask a lot and that one can impose sanctions with them, but that those sanctions ultimately do not work. One can at least expect that someone who comes here and builds his entire life here, comes here to live and work, knows the rules of the game, knows his rights and duties and has a minimum of knowledge of the regional language. In Flanders the Flemish conditions are that, in Wallonia they are that other and in Brussels they are that other. That matter, Mr. Minister — which is also stated in my bill — is to be resolved by the Communities themselves, but only the federal level can ensure that the link is made. You must not deny this, for then you will violate the truth.

Let’s wait for the design, Mrs. Lanjri. Regarding the hypocritical marriages, we also found each other: we had a good discussion in the committee. I have seen that here, in the plenary session, your group voted “yes” after some hesitation. Their

As for family reunification, I come with my suggestions, but of course we live in a federal country with a complex competence structure. This means that in the north and south of the country different emphasis can be placed in the field of integration policy. Let us not open the discussion about how it is going in other governments, Mrs. Lanjri: we have already had enough difficulty with it in the last few weeks. Let us stick to our own powers. Their

I would like to conclude with the questions of Mrs. Galan. I share her view of integrating both the SIS card and the driver’s license into the electronic identity card. The study to effectively integrate the driving license will be started on the first day. In regards to the inclusion of additional health data, problems have arisen in the privacy commission. It has said it has problems with additional health data being included on the electronic identity card. This needs to be accompanied by some arguments. Their

Then there is the bill that your group has submitted on the right to vote for Belgians abroad. If the committee puts this on the agenda, we can discuss it. You know that there are no political agreements in the government on this: this is a parliamentary initiative, which we can deal with at the appropriate time in the committee. Their

You have also asked for the timing of the reform of the asylum procedure. On 23 December, the draft will be submitted to the Council of Ministers and will, of course, be sent to the Council of State. Mrs. Galan, we will ⁇ need a transitional phase. In order to make the procedure with the new Council on Foreign Disputes operational, we still need some time. In the future, we need a transitional phase, in which both the Standing Professional Committee and the State Council must be given an additional injection of resources and manpower to complete the files from the past. Their

Thousands of files concerning foreigners are awaiting treatment at the Council of State. We cannot reform the procedure and let it go. In a transitional phase, therefore, we will need an additional injection of manpower and resources to overcome that downturn, both at the level of the State Council and at the level of the Standing Professional Committee. Their

That was my response to the various interesting questions and comments.

Mr. Minister, I would like to say a little about the tax deductibility. I have said that we will submit our bill back. Indeed, we want this work to be done. Now you are putting this in perspective. You say that this has no financial implications in 2006, but afterwards, of course. Of course, one must look not only at the financial implications, but also at the added value it has in terms of awareness, in terms of public awareness of safety, the subjective sense of safety, and so on. We will return our proposals in this regard. Their

Regarding firefighters and civil safety, I note that on 20 January the final meeting of the Commission-Paulus will take place. Then the work will be terminated. You say that you will then work through a two-track policy, because you will not immediately and not too quickly carry out the reform, because you have learned lessons from the past in that area. In addition, you would like to work with legitimate governments after the 2006 elections. I wonder whether the current governments are not legitimate. It is for six years. However, I understand what you mean. So you want to work on this reform from the beginning of 2007. The question that can be asked then is whether you and the government of which you are part are still legitimate.

What is your opinion? Should we ignore this? Their

I have already met many mayorals in this regard. They all told me that they can endorse the great principles. However, they also say that it might be desirable to complete everything in a further preparatory manner. We can do all the preparations. We can even introduce the legislative texts in Parliament. Once the new municipal governments are installed, we can do the final check with the new municipal governments. Then the Parliament can approve the reform very quickly. Then there will be a reform that will also be effectively carried out on the ground.

Mr. Minister, we find it very important that this reform is carried out from different sides and by the different partners involved in the policy in question. You can be assured that this is also our position. Their

You say that you will do exercises to equalize the lat or to equalize more. I hope that you will definitely also take into account the differences and diversities that exist in the landscape, including for the different risks that exist, the rurality of areas and the like.

Then I would like to talk very briefly about the draft you announce regarding the electoral legislation. We have indeed made a proposal to raise the age of the sides to the 40-year-olds. What was most important for us was not exactly that age but that not always those young families would be confronted with that call and that there could be only one call per family, per address. The confusion that arose came because in the press was communicated that it was that you would only be allowed to call 18-year-olds. Of course, we cannot find ourselves in that. But if you propose to take a mix from the entire population, from the group of 18- to 60-year-olds, then we can find ourselves in that.