Proposition 50K1664

Projet de loi visant à confier aux centres publics d'aide sociale la mission de guidance et d'aide sociale financière dans le cadre de la fourniture d'énergie aux personnes les plus démunies.

General information ¶

Submitted by

Groen Open Vld Vooruit PS | SP Ecolo MR Verhofstadt Ⅰ

Submission date

Feb. 28, 2002

Official page

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Status

Adopted

Requirement

Simple

Subjects

natural gas electricity supply aid to disadvantaged groups welfare

Voting ¶

Voted to adopt

Groen Vooruit Ecolo LE PS | SP Open Vld MR

Abstained from voting

N-VA FN

Party dissidents ¶

• Alfons Borginon (Open Vld) abstained from voting.
• Simonne Leen (Groen) abstained from voting.

Contact form ¶

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Discussion ¶

May 16, 2002 | Plenary session (Chamber of representatives)

Full source

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minister, Ladies and Gentlemen, the Public Health Committee examined this bill during its meetings of 23 and 30 April 2002 and 7 May 2002. In his introductory presentation, Minister Vande Lanotte recalled that this bill aims to assign CPAS a legal mission in the framework of the supply of energy to the most disadvantaged.

This mission includes two parts.

1 of 1. An accompanying component and social and budgetary guidance for gas and electricity consumers with payment difficulties. This right is granted to persons who have problems with energy supply and the accompaniment must include the problem of debt in its entirety.

2 of 2. A component of financial social assistance that should enable CPAS to fully or partially settle the debts incurred in order to enable the person concerned to resume on a new basis; the CPAS may at the same time intervene as part of a preventive social policy in the field of energy.

The starting points at the basis of this bill are as follows.

1 of 1. Increase in overindebtedness

At the end of December 2001, 397,451 people were registered at the Negative Credit Central of the National Bank, representing approximately 5% of the major population compared to 4.5% in 1996. Especially those aged 25-34 years and 35-44 years are the most affected. And of the approximately 540,000 contracts that were registered, 84% were not settled. The total unpaid amount of these contracts amounts to EUR 1.8 billion.

2 of 2. Liberalization of the energy market

The transition to a more open energy regime, with a greater exposure to market risks, justifies the imposition of public service obligations by the authorities. The law of 29 April 1999 on the organisation of the electricity market gives the King the possibility to create, by decree deliberated in the Council of Ministers, a Fund which may be charged with part or all of the actual net costs of public service obligations. On April 5 and July 20, 2000, the government decided to significantly increase the resources of the social funds. We went from approximately 7.932.590 euros to 42.637.690 euros. by

3 of 3. Continuation and strengthening of interventions by the CPAS

Since 1985, the CPAS, with the help of the Social Fund of the Electricity and Gas Control Committee, has carried out an important mediation and guidance action in order to address cuts in energy supply, especially for consumers in difficult social situations. Evaluations of the action carried out by the CPAS in favour of these consumers show that significant successes have been recorded since. The support of the Social Fund includes an amount of approximately 7.932.590 euros, which is distributed between the CPAS and for which agreements are concluded with the Control Committee. In the context of the problem of increasing debt, these resources are insufficient.

This project aims to settle legally and in a better way this unregulated mission of the CPAS.

1 of 1. The tasks that the CPAS receive under this bill are the same as those taken on the basis of agreements with the Control Committee.

2 of 2. The increase of the budget from 7.932.590 euros to 42.637.690 euros requires precise legal regulation and a regulatory basis for its use and distribution. A legal regulation, in accordance with the requirements of European directives, provides better guarantees than existing agreements between CPAS and the distribution sector.

3 of 3. Everyone is also guaranteed a right to social assistance by the obligation for each CPAS to provide social and budgetary guidance of persons in debt with regard to energy supplies.

4 of 4. With the liberalization of the gas and electricity markets, it will no longer be the Control Committee but the CREG that will manage the social funds. The existing Social Fund and the Control Committee are, indeed, removed and reintroduced in the CREG.

In the general discussion, Mr. Vande Walle notes that the project entrusts the CPAS with a new legal mission: accompanying people who have difficulties paying their gas and electricity bills as well as providing financial support in the partial or total payment of the bills. CPAS shall be provided with the resources necessary for the fulfillment of these new tasks. The political group of Mr. Vande Walle supports the overall objective of the project. The speaker wishes to draw the attention of the members of the committee on the following points: - it would not have been unnecessary to ask for an opinion from the Economic Committee and it is paradoxical to provide that the law will produce effects retroactively; - the project applies only to people who find it difficult to pay their gas and electricity bills, but is this not a discrimination against people who cannot pay their heating oil bill? - the project contains certain inaccuracies: will the financial aid be a simple advance or will the CPAS have to pay purely and simply the invoice presented to it? by Mr. Vande Walle also believes that the bill creates a privilege for the benefit of gas and electricity distribution companies because the CPAS will pay these companies while the debtor will often have other creditors.

Finally, how will this project be reconciled with the law on overindebtedness?

by Mr. Paque points out that the problem of household debt, to which the project aims to provide a solution, is not new. CPAS and the non-market sector have long been involved in debt mediation and minimum supply negotiations. It would also be interesting that similar projects are developed for non-commercial sector associations. by

The speaker would like to have clarifications regarding the granting of subsidies for staff engagement.

by Mr. Mayeur welcomes the adoption of a social fund of this importance. He recalls having questioned the minister on the state of progress of the agreement that was to be negotiated at an interministerial conference on the destination of the social fund created following the liberalization of the electricity market. The project responds to the concerns of the CPAS. for Mr. Mayeur, these latter must in no way become debt collection bodies. He welcomes the “prevention” aspect to which the project refers.

Ms. Gilkinet is in favour of the project, but asks about the future of the local committees for cutting opinions called CLAC.

by Mr. D'Haeseleer, on his part, believes that the accompaniment of debtors should be provided by the federated entities in such a way as to avoid further financial transfers.

The interviewer asks whether the project is not likely to have a detrimental impact as distribution companies are likely to discharge themselves from tasks that are theirs on the CPAS. For him, the project does not specify the recipient of the financial aid, nor the conditions under which a person’s debts can be partially or completely settled.

Mrs Avontroodt endorses the project but refers to the letter of the Union of Belgian Cities and Communes. It is essential that the CPAS know, from the beginning of the year, the amount that is allocated to them to fulfill their tasks.

The Minister notes that when drafting the bill, the Union of Belgian Cities and Communes agreed on the philosophy of the project. With regard to the allocation of competence, it is up to the communities to establish the rules for authorisation and for associations of the non-commercial sector active in debt control. A protocol will be concluded with the communities: in order to benefit from federal funding, CPAS must comply with the conditions of recognition enacted by the latter.

In addition, the system of local cutting notice commissions is ⁇ ined, but the minister emphasizes that their future depends on private companies that have taken the initiative to create them.

The Minister draws the attention of the members of the committee on the general philosophy of the project that is to favor a comprehensive approach to the problem of debt. The project focuses on accompanying and in particular on budgetary guidance, rather than on financial assistance as such. As regards the granting of subsidies for staff, it specifies that they are not conditioned by additional commitments. The Minister also confirms that the Fund has not yet been set up.

Once the draft is adopted, a royal decree producing its effects on 1 January 2002 shall be taken and submitted, for confirmation, to the House within six months of its entry into force.

In relation to the letter of the Union of Belgian Cities and Communes, the Minister issues the following comments: the project does not make the sale of "energy cards" mandatory and the financing is assured unconditionally for 2002 and 2003. Since 2004, it is conditioned by compliance with the standards of recognition enacted by the communities.

Please allow me, Mr. Speaker, to refer to my written report for the discussion of the articles.

I will simply emphasize that our committee has adopted Amendment No. 3 by Ms. Gilkinet and Leen aiming to index the amount referred to in §1 of Article 4. He also approved Amendment No. 7. Amending Article 5 to bring it in line with the Agreement of 26 April 2002 concluded with the Communities. The agreement obtained at the end of this consultation allows to link, from 1 January 2005, the financing to the authorisation. Finally, from a technical point of view and to ensure rigour and consistency in the text adopted by the committee, I would like to draw my colleagues’ attention to the following point. By reading the text adopted by the committee, it appeared that the terminology used could create confusion in terms of concepts.

The bill repeatedly refers to the beneficiaries of the VIPO status. From the very beginning, the intention was to target by this concept both the original beneficiaries of this status and the categories of persons who were subsequently assimilated to it. by

In order to avoid confusion, the words "the number of VIPO statutes" should be replaced by the words "the number of beneficiaries of the increased insurance intervention, referred to in Article 37, §§ 1 er and 19 of the Act on Compulsory Healthcare and Indemnity Insurance, coordinated on 14 July 1994".

I will conclude, Mr. Speaker, by recalling that the entire draft law as amended was adopted by the Public Health Commission by 9 votes and 4 abstentions.

I would like to thank the services for their kind diligence in the drafting of this report.

On behalf of my group, Mr. Speaker, Dear colleagues, and in order not to aggravate the debate, let me also express our satisfaction with this project. We are pleased that the philosophy of the project aims to favor a comprehensive approach to the problem of debt.

Too many human dramas are still due to the hellish spiral of over-indebtedness and you know that the Socialists have always made it one of their priorities. Beyond the passive and purely financial approach to this serious problem, the poorest are here recognized in their rights to circumstantiated accompaniment thanks in particular to a budgetary guidance. It is based on the principle that it is better to frame the poorest in a pedagogical and social way rather than to help them in a purely financial way, one not excluding the other, of course.

It has been repeatedly recalled that it was not about transforming the CPAS into recovery bodies, but rather to assign them an accompanying mission that can take either the form of a negotiation of a payment plan or the form of a budgetary guidance. It will be up to the CPAS to choose the option they consider necessary.

In conclusion, the legal public service tasks assigned to the CPAS are strengthened and financed by the federal authority. The CPAS will decide on the allocation of the allocated financial aid. We can only subscribe to these generous goals that tend to give even more dignity to the poorest.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to briefly react to the “socialist” part of Mrs. Burgeon’s exhibition by drawing attention to the extraordinary nature of good conscience and self-satisfaction that this type of speech encompasses.

Of course, giving a new legal mission to institutions responsible for ensuring social assistance in our country in matters of indebtedness or overindebtedness is a priori positive and of course we must support this type of initiative. by

But nevertheless, after the vote you expressed last April 18 — this vote on the pseudo-right to social integration that will dop these same CPAS to force them more and more to exercise their mission primarily in the field of occupational insertion, of the feeding of interim agencies or the private sector, through pseudo-contractual mechanisms that actually hide mechanisms for forced labor —, let me tell you that after promising the CPAS that if and only if they play the game of this legislation, they will have additional incomes; let me tell you that after having created all the conditions for tomorrow to be well — given the budgetary strangulation they must face — their priority in the good and on the ground, frankly, today give them a legitimate mission in a new, positive process, the field of certainty, and the more problems poses.

Mr. Speaker, I did not intend to intervene in relation to what Mr. Speaker just said. Decroly, but there are limits. by

The country’s highest-paid low-income student would do well to adopt a slightly lower profile when talking about the situation of the poor. Indeed, we voted on the integration income and new rights that are important for people and I find it a little strong that a member of parliament, who of course made the private choices he wanted to make, comes here to give us lessons. by

There is no forced labour, as there is no obligation for deputies not to come to meetings, not to follow the debates, but to present, in the meantime, their exams at the university, while being paid by the House. These are choices that everyone can make, but it would seem that some make these choices more easily than others!

On the basis of the project we are voting for, I would like to specify that 42 million euros are made available to the CPAS to help 400,000 people who are over indebted in this country. In this period when the media and others still make it seem that the political world is not interested in the concrete problems of people, I find that this project, which looks precisely at the concrete problems encountered by 400,000 people in this country, can be welcomed by the whole of this parliament, majority as opposition, as was the case in a public health committee, and whatever the sarcasms of a representative now leftist of this assembly. I think this was worth emphasizing. ( with applause )

Mr. Speaker, my group will gladly vote on this bill. Indeed, I think that he realizes what is called "the square of the circle", in so far as some of the prerogatives we are talking about today are regional, but it was important to entrust this task to the CPAS.

The discussion we had about Article 5 and the adoption of the amendment in the committee allow us to take into account the difficulties encountered in our country. This project allows CPAS to timely adjust their position to the requirements related to the prerogatives of the regions. I think that is a good point. by

Another reason for satisfaction: the discussion we had about Article 2 allowed us to make some clarifications. As it has just been said, the aim of the bill is to recover the overall debt of a person. I will cite a concrete example that has its importance: the CPAS may choose to pay another debt, namely that it may prefer that relating to health care rather than that relating to energy. The mission of the CPAS is in fact to take into account the overallity of the person and its problem, and not to “sweet” things. It is from the needs of individuals that the CPAS must expand its scope of action.

The bill that we are going to vote today could therefore not serve as a pretext for energy distributors to shift part of their responsibilities to the CPAS. There is no question, for example, of seeing CPAS replace distributors to recharge "energy" cards. We have been attentive to this and the bill that will be put to the vote today allows precisely to avoid such deviations. by

I have a point of regret, Mr. President. We had submitted an amendment on the evaluation of the law, which, to our great surprise, was rejected by the other parliamentarians. It was all the more surprising that the Minister had not objected at all to our amendment, that we are at a time when good governance is regularly discussed and when it is necessary to be ⁇ attentive to the measures implemented to combat poverty.

I do not understand why this amendment was rejected. I regret it. It is without resentment that we will vote on the bill and that when the time comes, we will use our parliamentary rights to evaluate the bill. by

I also regret that Minister Vande Lanotte is not present today. In fact, there is one point that remains important for CPAS, namely when the Energy Fund will be created and its implementation started. The CPAS would like to have accurate information on this, so that they can schedule the work necessary for the implementation of the bill that we all expect.

I could ask Mr. Verwilghen to forward this particular request to the Minister of Social Integration. Mr Minister, I thank you.

May 23, 2002 | Plenary session (Chamber of representatives)

Full source

Mr. Speaker, I will be brief given that the supplementary report is on the banks of my colleagues. There is a small amendment by Mr. Mayeur and some corrections: indicate "Public Centre of Social Assistance" instead of "CPAS"; replace "VIPO status" with "the number of beneficiaries of the increased insurance intervention referred to in Articles 37, §1 and 19 of the Law on Compulsory Health Care Insurance and Indemnities, coordinated on 14 July 1994" and replace the words "on the basis of the number of registered inscriptions" with the words "on the basis of the number of registered default debtors". For the rest, you can consult the report in your possession.

Mr. Speaker, I was wrong just recently. I had to intervene now.

That was what it seemed to me! You weren’t “knowing” at that time, if I can afford this game of words.

I should have been cautious. I was mistaken when I entered the session. In fact, I regret the obligation to go through CPAS. Some people who are in difficulty only want to go to society in order to explain themselves. Forcing them to go through the CPAS seems to me, in some cases, a regrettable compulsion.

Mr. Speaker, it is after the "battery" of calls, reminders, returns, etc., by the companies themselves that at the end of the race, the list of people who cannot pay their invoice is drawn up and the CPAS is asked to intervene.

The persons concerned should be able to deal directly with the society.

You can do this in advance.

This is not interpreted in this way by companies. As far as we are concerned, SIMOGEL compels people to pass the CPAS otherwise they do not benefit from the same conditions. I find this obligation of assistance deplorable. Individuals should be able, by pride and if they wish, to discuss directly with the company without the formal obligation to go through a CPAS and yet have the same financial and monetary conditions.