Proposition 50K1284

Proposition de résolution relative à la situation actuelle en Afghanistan.

General information ¶

Authors

CD&V Simonne Creyf
Ecolo Mirella Minne
Groen Leen Laenens
LE Jacques Lefevre
MR Daniel Bacquelaine
N-VA Ferdy Willems
Open Vld Fientje Moerman
PS | SP Yvon Harmegnies, Karine Lalieux
Vooruit Magda De Meyer

Submission date

June 6, 2001

Official page

Visit

Status

Adopted

Requirement

Simple

Subjects

Afghanistan resolution of parliament human rights

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Discussion ¶

July 3, 2001 | Plenary session (Chamber of representatives)

Full source

I am not a rapporteur. So far the new political culture has not yet evolved. Unless I am mistaken, I have not yet received a report on the Bill No. 1290 to improve the employment rate, which is the case for bill no. 1291 concerning the reconciliation of employment and quality of life.

Mrs D'Hondt, you are right, but one refers to the other report. I have a Green Report on Bill No. 1290, by Mr. Jean-Marc Delizée, lie in front of me.

We received this report this morning. That was in our banks this morning. I see, for example, that the report concerning draft 1290 is still on Mr Decroly’s bench.

Does the document have 79 pages? It is document 1290/003.

It has 79 pages. That is correct. It was provided to us this morning and it was also distributed to the banks.

Document 1290 refers to the report by Jean-Marc Delizée on the draft law to improve the employment rate of workers.

President: Jean-Pol Henry, First Vice-President Voorzitter: Jean-Pol Henry, first undervoorzitter.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker. by

Both draft laws and the attached proposals were discussed at our meetings on 13, 19 and 20 June. by

In her introductory presentation, the Minister of Employment first highlighted the importance of these two projects, which result both from the Government Decision of October 2000 and the Interprofessional Agreement for 2001 and 2002.

After discussing the genesis of these two projects, the Minister followed through the eight chapters of the project aimed at improving the employment rate of workers and the five chapters of the project on the reconciliation between employment and quality of life. by

The first bill, in its Chapter II, extends in 2001 and 2002, on the one hand, the effort in favour of persons belonging to risk groups or to whom an insertion course applies and, on the other hand, the contribution of 0.05% which first financed the unemployed accompaniment plan and which, since 2001, finances the insertion course for low-skilled young people. by

Chapter III allows for the fulfillment of the obligation to employ young people under the first employment agreement to take into account unemployed persons aged at least 45 years when a shortage of young people is found in the subregions by the subregional employment committees.

Chapter IV grants the power to the King, by decree deliberated in the Council of Ministers, to determine the conditions and rules for an increase in the structural reduction of employer contributions to social security for workers aged at least 58 years. This additional reduction may vary depending on age.

Chapter V creates for workers aged 45 years or older, who are dismissed and who have one year of old age, a right to a professional reclassification procedure (in English "outplacement"). The procedure must be fixed by the National Labour Council or, if not, by a decree deliberated in the Council of Ministers. by

Chapter VI deals with various amendments to the 1987 Act on Temporary Work, Temporary Work and Workers’ Provision to Users. by

Chapter VII establishes a fund for the promotion of the quality of working conditions, aimed at subsidizing actions aimed at improving the working conditions of workers aged at least 55 years. by

As regards Chapter VIII, it allows workers at least 50 years of age who benefit from a half-time career interruption or who will benefit from a time credit from 1 January 2002 to exercise during their available half-time activities of training, guidance or tutoring of new workers.

Finally, Chapter IX deals with the simplification of paid education leave. by

This is, in a few words, the content of the main chapters of this bill.

Now to the second bill. Chapter II relates to the generalized reduction of working hours to 38 hours per week from 1 January 2003 and grants to employers who anticipate this reduction, a reduction of employer contributions to social security, the amount of which is degressive depending on the quarter in which the anticipated reduction is implemented.

Chapter III replaces the current provisions in the case of collective reduction of working time and the introduction of the four-day week with simpler measures. Employers who reduce the weekly working time to less than 38 hours will benefit, on the one hand, from an adaptation premium in the form of a single reduction of contributions per worker and per reduction hour, and, on the other hand, from a quarterly reduction of contributions variing according to the extent of the reduction of the working time. An adaptation premium is also planned as part of the four-day week.

The reduction of the weekly working time may apply to categories of workers determined by their function or age, but it must be collective.

Chapter IV creates a legal framework allowing the application of the Collective Labour Convention No. 77, of 14 February 2001, concluded within the National Labour Council, establishing a system of time credit and reduction of work benefits. It follows that the Recovery Act of 1985 must be amended, among other things, because the provisions concerning career interruption must remain for the public sector. by

The CCT was made binding by the Royal Decree of 13 March 2001; it will enter into force on 1 January 2002. The Minister presented the contents of this important convention. Members of the Assembly can therefore take note of this in the written report.

Chapter V increases paternity leave from 3 to 10 days and introduces adoption leave.

Chapter VI extends the possibility of concluding sector-specific collective labour agreements relating to the pre-payment scheme.

A general discussion, which can be called very interesting and which focused on both draft laws, was initiated. In this oral report I repeat a series of interventions among the most significant.

As regards the overall economy of these two projects, Pieters and D’Hondt argued that, within the framework of the European approach to employment, it was necessary to harmonise the different measurement instruments used by Member States to present their employment policies. Pieters also asked whether the increase in the employment rate resulted from government measures or whether it was mainly due to the favorable economic conditions and therefore to the outbreak of the natural growth of employment. Ms Van de Casteele considered that the projects under consideration were far from operating the simplification advocated by the government and deplored the extent of the delegation conferred on the King, opinion which was shared by the CVP group.

Both Mrs. D’Hondt and Mr. Wauters asked about the impact of projects on social security financing. In addition, Mr. Wauters noted that his group has submitted legislative proposals with a broader scope, not only in relation to the projects under consideration, but also in relation to the interprofessional agreement. To ensure that the projects meet their ambitions, Coenen requested a medium-term assessment of the impact of reduced working hours on various factors, including employment and the conciliation of work and family life.

Ms. Burgeon spoke on paternity and adoption leave, believing that this was overall a progression compared to the current situation. She recalled that, for her, paternity leave has another purpose than parental leave, which is also a questionable system both in terms of gender equality and in terms of social equality.

The various measures relating to the collective reduction of working time have triggered many interventions. Both Mrs. Cahay and Mr. Anthuenis welcomed the voluntary nature of the collective reduction of the working time below the 38 hours. They believe that in this matter, only social negotiation should be able to play. by Mr. Anthuenis raised a problem of discrimination as regards the reduction of employer charges for companies before 1 January 2001 or those that will have to reduce the work benefits to 38 hours/week.

Pieters also highlighted the negative aspects of the collective reduction of working time, which has not been a central theme in interprofessional negotiations. This opinion is shared, with nuances however, by Mrs Van de Casteele and Mr. D’haeseleer, who consider that the collective reduction of working time is not consistent with the current economic situation, especially in the Flemish region.

With regard to the incentives to reduce working time, Mr. Timmermans said that productivity gains will absorb the necessary increase in production and, therefore, that these will only promote additional hiring to a very small extent. He was also surprised that the collective reduction of working time remains in the wage standard, which is not the case for beneficiary participations.

The complexity of expectations and needs in terms of reduction of working hours and the appropriate ways to respond to them have been the subject of extensive debate between Ms. D'Hondt and Mr. D'Hondt. and good.

Considering that the thirty-eight hours are primarily a lever for sectoral and corporate negotiations, but also for a broader process, your rapporteur also highlighted the link between the four-day week and the collective reduction of working time. He recalled that the mechanism introduced during the previous legislature was more a tool of flexibility than anything else.

As regards the component of the individual reduction of the working time, several speakers — including Ms D'Hondt, Ms Van de Casteele and Mr D'Hondt. Bonte — expressed doubts about the value added of the credit-time scheme compared to the current system of career interruption.

The problem of individual reduction of working time in SMEs was also addressed, in particular by Mr. Bonte who deplored the fact that the Collective Labour Agreement No. 77 is part of a trend aimed at gradually and structurally diverting workers employed in these SMEs from the various forms of career interruption.

Ms. Coenen, on the other hand, questioned the conduct of a policy of equal opportunities through time credit, which requires a policy of income equivalence.

Finally, your rapporteur expressed concerns regarding the budget balance for social security compared with the removal of the replacement obligation.

The discussions on the various measures relating to the increase in the employment rate of older workers focused mainly on the reclassification of workers aged 45 years or older. For the rest, I refer to the written report.

by Mr. D'Haeseleer pinched the additional cost for companies — four billion according to established calculations — and suggested an obligation to reclassify in the head of workers.

While in favour of the principle of outplacement, Ms D’Hondt questioned the relationship between professional reclassification and notice periods or compensations, as well as the balance to be achieved between the respective rights of employers and workers.

by Mr. Bonte considers that the reclassification formula as adopted by the government constitutes an undeniable progress in the fight against the expulsion of older workers from the labour market. According to him, the systems of prepension and unemployment of the elderly present a danger of social fracture that the outplacement specifically wants to avoid. The interviewer stated that the right to outplacement should be neutral in relation to time-limits and notice compensation and said he opposed the imposition on the worker’s head of an obligation to register in a project of reclassification.

Your rapporteur also opposed such an obligation. In the case of a right, the use of the right cannot be bound by conditions of availability on the labour market for obtaining unemployment benefits. As regards the scope of the outplacement, your rapporteur regretted the exclusion of workers who can qualify for the statutory early pension.

by Mr. Anthuenis said that he would personally prefer an outplacement organization on a voluntary basis and that there are incentives for ⁇ .

Finally Mr. Wauters expressed doubts about the conclusion of a collective agreement on this subject and requested that the financing of the reclassification is not at the expense of the pre-notification procedures.

In her responses, the Minister of Employment noted, first of all, that the projects under consideration were neither in a “revolutionary” perspective — as some employer organisations have claimed — nor in a “politics of small steps” — as some speakers insinuated during the debates. Significant progress is being made, in order to respond in particular to the European Union both quantitatively and qualitatively in terms of employment.

In the framework of the Belgian Presidency of the European Union, she asked the Higher Employment Council and the senior officials of ONEM to work on the harmonisation of European employment statistics.

At the Stockholm Summit, Belgium included this revision of statistics in its conclusions.

Based in particular on the 2001 report of the Higher Employment Council, the minister said that growth alone could not explain the decline in the unemployment rate for the year 2000.

Furthermore, far from further complicating the measures for employment, these two bills undoubtedly contribute to an administrative simplification. The minister gave concrete examples, including the 174 possibilities of career interruption that are reduced to only one.

Finally, the Minister insisted on the role that social partners will have to play in the implementation of several provisions of the projects under consideration. In this regard, the King is authorized to intervene, most often, only in the absence of agreement between the social partners.

Clarifications on budgetary envelopes were given and, in response to the request of some committee members on specific points — working time, reduction of working time, career interruption and credit time — the Minister provided a whole series of figures and tables that are attached to the written report.

Regarding the questions raised by the speakers on the content of these two bills, the Minister responded point by point. Members of the Assembly are invited to take note of this in the written report.

In particular, it should be noted that the government has always had, through these two bills, the concern to reconcile the competitiveness of companies with the new individual rights. This is the case, for example, in the case of reduction of working time or in the case of professional reclassification, for which the Minister has indicated that, within the framework of the royal decree which will be taken in the absence of conclusion of a general CCT, the economic cost of the measure will have to be taken into account.

Given our employment rate of over 50 years, one of the lowest in Europe, the minister admitted that other means of promoting employment of older workers will need to be activated.

The discussions and votes focused first on Bill No. 1291, then on Bill No. 1290.

Many articles have been the subject of discussion and additional questions.

Several amendments have been submitted. Only one was accepted by our committee. This is the first amendment. Bonte et consorts which inserts an article 25bis in Bill No. 1291. This amendment provides for the annual assessment of time credit by the CNT, which will be forwarded to the Minister of Employment and the Federal Parliament. The month of December 2002, chosen for the first assessment, is justified by the fact that it coincides with the conclusion of the next interprofessional agreement. This amendment was adopted by 11 votes and 2 abstentions.

The whole Bill No. 1291 as amended was adopted by 9 votes and 4 abstentions. The attached bills are therefore unobjective.

The whole Bill No. 1290 as amended was adopted by 9 votes and 5 abstentions. Consequently, the attached bill becomes obsolete.

Here, Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Deputy Prime Minister, my colleagues, is the most comprehensive report of our work.

Finally, I would like to thank the secretary of the committee and the services of the House who had an intense work to provide, on the occasion of these debates, in particular for the drafting of the ⁇ comprehensive report.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Minister, colleagues, I would like to start the discussion of the draft law to improve the employment rate of workers with a question. Has the government ever calculated what effect it would have on the employment rate in Belgium if we gave the 10,000 up-and-coming workers in our country a full social status so that this group of workers can be counted among the active population? Our employment rate would rise a little. Their

In my presentation, I would like to limit myself to two major points, in particular the outplacement and the older workers.

The first point concerns outplacement. The rapporteur explained in his excellent report that the CVP has already declared in the committee that the party can fully sign up to the principle of outplacement. However, the provisions as they are included in the draft law for the introduction of a right to outplacement give us some reflections and serious concerns. Their

For example, we must dare to ask the question of the balance between the respective rights and obligations of employers and workers within the preconceived outplacement scheme. The question of how the right to outplacement relates to the cancellation periods and the fees must be answered clearly. I have already used a Dutch proverb at the beginning of the purple-green government: "You must not stack, but you must choose." Do not these measures as a whole require a choice rather than a cumulative combination of various measures? The increase in wage costs on the one hand and the reduction in wage costs on the other cannot be carried together at the same time. Their

Mrs. Minister, during the discussion in the committee you announced the following, and I quote: "that in the absence of a general cao, a royal decree will have to be issued taking into account the economic cost of this measure" - outplacement - "for the enterprises. As regards the relationship with the pre-annotation, the following distinction should be made. Either the person concerned continues to work without salary and without payment of a pre-annulment fee during the pre-annulment period. In this case, cumulation with outplacement activities is possible. Either the person concerned stops working during the pre-annotation period and a compensatory pre-annotation fee is paid. In that case, a cumulation between the fees and the outplacement activities can be considered." This is a very important statement in the context of what will happen in the coming weeks and months. In the reply to this general discussion, would you therefore confirm and possibly clarify your important statements from the committee?

In the case of older workers, the focus on increasing the activity rate of older workers should be on retaining older workers. In this draft, the government once again emphasizes almost exclusively the re-employment of older unemployed and bridge retirees. Being re-employed after being dismissed is something completely different from being kept in employment. Recruitment takes place with not insignificant financial incentives. This plan results in those who were arranged along the back door with a financial advantage along the front door and with a new financial advantage being brought in. Mrs. Minister, the CVP insists that policy initiatives and financial incentives would not promote reintegration but would prevent, more even complicate, the emissions of older workers.

The growth of the group of older unemployed has not decreased during this legislature in a period of high economic conditions. On the contrary, the group has grown. Compared to 1998 in 1999, the group of older unemployed with 8568 persons increased to a total of 132,816. In 2000 this number increased to 7947. At the end of 2000, there were 140.763 older unemployed. To my bitter disappointment and ⁇ your bitter disappointment, I must note that in the first quarter of 2001 this figure increased by 5620 persons. These figures demonstrate the need for effective action, not so much to promote the return of older unemployed to the labour market — however important this aspect is — but to avoid the massive emissions of older workers.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Minister, I come to the bill on the reconciliation of employment and quality of life. In the past few months, you have repeatedly announced that the government will short-term deliver an ambitious plan for reconciling employment and quality of life. You emphasized that we could expect a plan that would include all the ingredients for increasing the employment rate but also for rushing and a better combination of work performance, family life and quality of life.

The title of the draft law that precedes sounds good. "Conciliation of employment and quality of life", it can almost not sound better. The façade was saved. For the media, the headline is probably enough! Behind this title lies the grip of this government that too much uniformly determines what for the citizen of this country is the best combination of work performance and quality of life. From the content of the bill, we can only deduce that the government is of the opinion that it should be re-elected for general, linear measures that are imposed or strongly promoted through financial incentives.

These measures, linear as they are, should be the best reconciliation between employment and quality of life for companies and workers. In fact, we thought about it differently. In the stage of the collective reduction of working hours, we are a little disturbed by the fact that this is again the deus ex machina.

Collective reduction of working hours, which you do not dare to impose unilaterally, is now sold. There are two reductions on the social security contribution to be paid, one one-off and the recurrent one. Companies that move to the four-day week also receive four hundred euros per employee concerned. However, the remaining uncertainty regarding the possibilities given to the King to adjust the amount of the one-off reduction, the duration within which the recurrent reduction can be ⁇ , and the definition of what will now be considered as the four-day week, are in fact contrary to the legal certainty sought by the undertakings. However, the administrative complexity created for this scheme is contrary to the administrative simplification.

Next, I come to the system of time credit. Despite the time credit pushed forward by the government to demonstrate the extent to which the active welfare state is developing and how harmoniously work, family and leisure life can be reconciled, we continue to acknowledge that the time credit provided in this draft brings less reconciliation than the current legislation and the possibilities of career break. The discussion of the bill in the committee has not removed the CVP's belief that the probability is real that after the approval of this bill, fewer workers will be eligible for the time credit than it is now the case with the career break. Therefore, there is less reconciliation than before. Let me clarify for a moment. The five percent of employees per company who will be entitled to the time credit are expressed in units or heads.

This is a generalized right but, simply, there is a particular organization from the moment when a certain number of workers request access to this particularity of working time arrangement. This is a generalized right. The great difference with the current situation is that now all workers, regardless of where they work, regardless of the sector, regardless of the dominant position or not in the social dialogue, are entitled to this credit time, this possibility of arrangement, of conciliation between working life and life outside work.

Mrs. Minister, however, the 5%, of which a special procedure must enter into force, is calculated in units or heads. However, the 3% who were entitled to a career interruption was expressed in staff volume. From practice — and I will support my statement — we know that 70% of current private sector career breakers — which is more than 51,500 people — opt for a reduction in performance rather than a full-time career break. If more part-time than full-time career break is requested, the volume of 3% is always more than the current 5%, calculated in heads. Furthermore, the tables that we have received also show that there are many sectors that register in their CAO only a right to time credit of two or three years.

The social partners who, at the time of the signing of the Interprofessional Agreement and the closing of CAO-77, may have thought that the sectors would increase the one-year time credit to more than three years in a fairly generalized manner, have probably been mistaken in their enthusiasm. The tables you made available to us show that most sectors remain stuck in two or three years. The possibilities provided for postponement and withdrawal of the right to time credit, the preference mechanism and the planning mechanism provide the workers concerned with less certainty in taking their right to time credit. The scheme of one-fifth career reduction and the career reduction for persons over 50 may be revoked in case of multiple illnesses in the enterprise and in case of increased employment. No matter how limited the number of people that appealed to it may have been, we continue to regret that the possibility of reducing the career to a third or a quarter is no longer possible, also because that was an instrument of flexibility in incorporating the palliative leave. Even for families with several children, the current arrangement does not threaten to be an improvement over the former.

We are especially concerned that no transitional measures have been envisaged. Those who have in the past recorded their career break, thinking that they could be entitled to three or five years, if this bill is approved, will face the fact that the time credit is generally legally reduced to one year or to two or three years in the sectors. In practice, for a large number of people, this will mean that at the age of 30, 35 or 40 they will find that their time credit has been exhausted for the rest of their career or at least until the next interprofessional or sectoral agreement, but at least no longer during the duration of this interprofessional or sectoral agreement, unless you tell me in such a way that I am wrong in this.

Finally, I would like to receive a clear confirmation or denial of something that we have also discussed in the committee. After the discussion in the committee and after a thorough review of CAO-77, as well as the provisions of this bill, I am in fact not reassured as to the maximum period for interruption of the professional career after the approval of this bill. We have therefore submitted an amendment so that what you have actually confirmed in the committee is explicitly recorded in the law, in particular that the duration of the interruptions of the professional career for the provision of palliative care, the provision of assistance or the care of a seriously ill family member or family member and the exercise of the right to parental leave, which we commonly call the "special consent" are above the maximum duration of the interruption provided in the new scheme on the time credit and the general system of professional careers in the private sector. This was clearly stated in the committee. I have to tell you honestly that I don’t have that insurance. I also appeal to my colleagues. It would therefore be very good if in the Integral Report of the Plenary Assembly it was mentioned that once again it was said very clearly that the special leaves as I have listed them here, the palliative leave, the parental leave and the other short leaves, are truly added to the right as provided here in the draft law.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Minister, dear colleagues, the increase in the employment rate is undoubtedly a classic goal for a government. I think it is enough to read back the post-war government statements to realize that each of them contained an important chapter concerning this increase in the employment rate. But it’s not because it’s a classic goal that it’s not relevant.

Relevant, because the increase in the employment rate is first and foremost the reduction of unemployment and the social fracture that accompanies it, also enabling a better distribution of income.

This is a relevant objective in order to be able to address the challenge of intergenerational dependence and thus ensure the viability of the social security system, which will remain, no doubt, financed mainly by social contributions. by

This is a relevant objective, finally, because it offers a greater number of women and men opportunities to thrive in the exercise of a profession.

Today, the Government proposes to us, in a classic but relevant way, two bills whose objectives are, on the one hand, to increase the employment rate with a greater focus on the employment of older workers for the first case, and, on the other hand, measures aimed at promoting the conciliation between working life and quality of life in the second case.

In its report, which was released very promptly a few days ago, the Higher Employment Council noted that Belgium was lagging behind the European peloton in terms of the employment rate of people over 50 years old. The Higher Employment Council also notes that even in sectors where there is a shortage of personnel, the employment rate of older workers has not increased.

The measures provided for in the bill, such as the reduction of employer contributions for workers from the age of 50 years, the outplacement measures in case of dismissal of older workers or the creation of the Fund for the promotion of the quality of working conditions or the relaxation of the career from the age of 50 years to carry out training activities are, of course, good measures. But one can wonder whether they will be sufficient to reach the targets of a 50% employment rate for workers over 55 as defined in Stockholm.

It cannot be avoided to think that early retirement schemes such as conventional prepensions have unencouraging effects on the employment of these workers. The Higher Employment Council, still the same, goes so far as to question the legitimacy of those regimes which, I quote, are currently arbitrarily depriving society of a qualified workforce.

This is obviously a delicate debate, as it directly targets a number of mechanisms set up to, should it be said, artificially settle a number of social situations in the case of closures or restructuring of enterprises. However, this is a delicate debate that will require the courage to open up if the government wants to ⁇ the goals it has set for itself. by

It seems to us that some elements are missing from the bill aimed at raising the employment rate. Thus, one of the real challenges of the federal employment policy is that of interregional convergence. Promoting sufficient economic and social convergence between each of the regions of the country is an objective that implies the mobilization and cooperation of the different levels of power, this, of course, with respect for the sharing of competences.

While we can finally rely on budgetary margins that have emerged, we recommend deploying a significant number of funds at the federal level to contribute to this convergence goal.

Moreover, the organization of lifelong education is also an indispensable element in increasing the employment rate. by

Investment in education is a key factor in improving professional insertion capabilities and in keeping up with the pace of new technologies. Some measures are planned by the government in order to improve the functioning of education leave, but we regret in particular that the interruption of career does not provide for a preferential compensation scheme for training leave or that education leave does not experience new developments.

Alongside people’s skills and qualifications, research and development and innovation are the main factors determining the development of the economy and knowledge. We believe it is essential to substantially increase the level of public and private investment in R&D in order to reach the annual rate of 2% of GDP. by

The increase in the employment rate goes, of course, also by improving the conciliation between private and professional life. This is the subject of the second bill submitted to our vote today. by

At the time when the Minister presented her bill to the Council of Ministers in March last year, the newspapers had headlined “Work and private life will no longer look at each other as feeding dogs, place for the eased week, for the eclipse career, for the better-accredited periods for the family. Men and women will appreciate it.”

It is true that the new product has attractive contours: a year of freedom for all wage workers, to be taken at once or to be distributed over the whole of their career, this year being a minimum time since the conclusion of a collective agreement can extend the duration up to five years. A reduction of the working time by 1/5 allows, without introducing a generalized reduction of the working time, to taste the joys of the four-day week for a maximum period of five years. Finally, those over fifty years of age will be able to reduce their working hours to retirement through a right to half-time or four-day week.

Behind these appetizing aspects, the bill we are proposing today still has some traces of bitterness. Indeed, if one refers to the statements made by the Minister of Employment in September 2000 in her note "More time for yourself and more jobs for all", one can regret that all the objectives that were formulated there, were not concretized in the bill. Indeed, rather than a real right to time credit, it is a partial reform of the interruption of career that is proposed.

Mr. Langendries, what you say is not correct. All the objectives outlined in the note have been accepted not only by the government but also by the social partners and are, for consideration, here in Parliament, with special modalities. But, in particular, the right to time credit is a new right.

I agree that this goal will be achieved if you accept the three amendments I am submitting, which we will discuss soon. I could then return to the conclusions that are mine for now. I will strongly defend these amendments in a few moments.

So this is a partial reform, in the first place because it concerns so far only the private sector. I see that we agree on this point.

This also applies only to the private sector.

But I can say that this reform is partial: it concerns only the private sector. The government is competent for the whole and so we could imagine a number of elements compared to the public sector, which would not be worse.

Partial reform also because it aims only to interrupt or reduce the so-called classical career. In fact, the specific schemes for interruption of career, parental leave, leave for palliative care and leave for assistance to seriously ill persons are not covered by the reform and are ⁇ ined as such.

Regarding the duration of the time credit, most workers — it must be acknowledged — were already entitled to a five-year career interruption. In this regard, except that it becomes general for all workers, the project does not show significant progress. I also have an amendment to address this problem.

Since I am at the same time defending the amendments, I continue with my third amendment, which concerns the partial character of the reform.

We agree on two of your amendments, but only on two.

Please keep in mind what has just been said.

Maybe Mr. Does Wauters speak in his own name?

My further amendment concerns the amount of the allowance. In our opinion, it remains insufficient. You will tell me that it is easy on the part of the opposition to propose increases; this is our role and we do it, but staying within reasonable limits. by

In our opinion, the amount remains insufficient to make the system more attractive, especially in low-income households for which the system will remain inaccessible. We are far from the allocation of 30,000 francs announced by the minister in September 2000. Is it not, Madam the Minister? by

I understand that the Minister of Finance wants to intervene just when I speak of increased amounts of allocations; it does not prevent me from holding the difference between your statements of September 2000 and what the bill contains that we must vote. There is no doubt that a little better would be suitable for us, and I will propose it to you soon.

I conclude by drawing the attention of the Government on an indispensable element to increase the employment rate but also to facilitate the reconciliation between family and work life. by

This has not been discussed in the bill, but I think it is indispensable to indicate that it is one of the major elements. These are measures to be taken to ensure that every child has access to affordable welfare services.

In this regard, we support the government’s commitment to increase the capacity of child services by 10% each year. But we expect these goals to be realized quickly. It seems to me indispensable to ⁇ a full-time status for guards in the frame — I know that this is not entirely your responsibility, but it is important to emphasize it — but also to multiply the terms of offering accommodation places that must be accessible to all families.

Despite the few remarks I have had to make and knowing with what enthusiasm you will reject the amendments that I will present to you in a few moments, the PSC group will not fail, Mrs. Minister, to vote positively on these proposals presented.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Vice-Prime Minister, dear colleagues, since its entry into office in July 1999, the Rainbow Government has highlighted its intention to establish an active social state, the objective being to ensure that, through integration into the labour market, no social group is marginalized and that the situation of all citizens is sufficiently secure to enable them to contribute creatively to society while having a satisfactory quality of life.

The labour market remains the weak point of the Belgian economy despite recent improvements linked mainly to the favorable economic situation. According to the latest estimates of the Institute of National Accounts, about 70,000 additional people were put into employment, two-thirds of whom are full-time.

While the employment rate has thus fallen from 59.3% in 1999 to 60,5% in 2000, it remains one of the lowest in the EU and this weakness is mainly attributable to 3 groups: older adults, young people and women. This involves pursuing an active employment policy in order to ⁇ the targets set at the European summits in Lisbon and Stockholm, i.e. to ⁇ an employment rate of 67% in 2005 and 70% in 2008.

The two bills submitted to us today aim to address this problem, on the one hand, by presenting very explicit measures to increase the employment rate of workers, according to the projected title, and on the other hand, to ⁇ a better articulation between work and private life.

These two bills concrete the agreements concluded between the social partners in the framework of the negotiations of the Interprofessional Agreement 2001-2002. These two projects are the result of a compromise between the respective points of view of workers and employers; this should be welcomed.

In the October 2000 Federal Policy Declaration, the government laid the foundations for the conclusion of the new Inter-professional Agreement and relied on the social partners’ responsibility to conduct an active employment policy by involving them in the choices and inviting them to define the most appropriate arrangements for the implementation of this policy, which they did. It is now up to us to respond to them in a concrete way by forging the legal basis for their agreements. by

With regard to the general reduction of working hours to 38 hours per week from 1 January 2003, we believe that a better distribution of working time can contribute to the implementation of employment policy and improve the quality of life through more flexible time management. However, if working time arrangement is a useful complement to any employment policy, it cannot fully replace it. by

With regard to collective reductions of working time, we welcome that they are introduced on a voluntary and non-binding basis. We believe that it is only in this way that companies will be able to consider a possible reduction of the working time below the 38-hour bar. This does not compromise the organization of work.

Furthermore, given the competitive market situation and the fact that Belgium is, according to the latest OECD report, the least-employed country in Europe, it is necessary to avoid taking too restrictive measures that could jeopardize the competitiveness of Belgian companies and the demand for skilled labour. by

At present, no study has yet objectively demonstrated the benefits of reducing working time on reducing unemployment or on job creation. It will be important to discuss this issue. by

The establishment of the system of credit-time, reduction of career and reduction of half-time work benefits concrete the application of the collective labour agreement No. 77, concluded on 14 February last in the National Labour Council. The introduction of such a system has the advantage of a large administrative simplification compared to the old plethoric system of interruption of careers.

It should also be welcomed that the system is purely conventional and that there is no obligation to replace an interrupted worker. by

The establishment of the right to paternity and adoption leave will allow the worker to be able to leave his work on the occasion of the birth or adoption of his child, for a period of ten days. We fully support this measure, which constitutes a desirable advance compared to the current situation.

As regards measures to increase the employment rate, as regards the provisions in favour of so-called risk groups, young people and older unemployed, we can only welcome the measures taken. by

With regard to professional reclassification, more commonly referred to as “outplacement”, which in fact aims to combat the expulsion of older workers from the labour market, we can regret that this measure is not compensated by more advantages in the head of the enterprise. by

With regard to measures taken in the context of temporary work, we are in favor of them. They are in the spirit of the ILO Convention and in the general context of opening investments to private operators. by

Education remains crucial for both young people and the elderly in the fight against unemployment. by

Other measures will still have to be at the heart of our concerns in the near future, in particular in the area of work flexibility where greater flexibility in the organization of work will need to be arranged. by

Here, Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Deputy Prime Minister, dear colleagues, are the various remarks I wanted to make during the discussion of this bill, which is important in employment policy. We will vote for it and we will vote for it.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Minister, colleagues, I will limit myself to a few general concerns. There has already been an extensive discussion on both drafts.

I am pleased that both drafts are being discussed together, even though this caused confusion among the President at the beginning of this debate. Symbolically, however, it is important to speak simultaneously about, on the one hand, increasing activity levels and, on the other hand, ensuring a better reconciliation between working time and family time. The government thus makes an important correction clear to the criticism of not only some members of the opposition, but also of the majority, who propose the active welfare state as a policy that should lead everyone to work, that everyone should work murderously, that this project should only lead to work. The fact that these two drafts are treated together implies an important correction of that criticism. If one wants and needs to evolve to a higher level of activity – we have committed ourselves to that – rules must be made that better reconcile working time and free time. The collective reduction of labour, the individual reduction of labour, the thematic break and the generalization of the 38-hour working week are ingredients that can help increase the level of activity, which can help the inactive to get started.

With regard to the first draft, namely the improvement of the employment rate, the challenges are known. Several speakers have already emphasized them, namely, that we must evolve to a 70% employment rate. An important factor here is the outflow of older workers that continues. Older workers, people over 45 years of age who have also experienced these times of high-concentration, when it becomes more difficult, when there is to be restructured, with the greatest ease put at the door and referred to the unemployment and the bridge pension. It is unfortunate that the CVP is now absent. After all, it is still unclear what policy the CVP proposes in this regard. I remember from the debate in the committee, but also from Mrs. D'Hondt, the plea that we must do much more, up to measures reducing the burden to keep those over 45 working. There is indeed a lot to say about this. However, I would like to remind Ms. D’Hondt of Mr. Pieters’ statement, which is diametrically opposed to the idea of using social security funds through reduction of burden to keep people working longer. This is also stated in the report. Ms. Pieters has repeatedly and very explicitly opposed this. The ACV wing of the CVP can be found for this. It is unclear – we have not been able to deduce this from the amendments – what the CVP stands for.

The ACV wing of the CVP can be found for this. It is unclear what the CVP is for.

In any case, there was a principled breakthrough with regard to the idea of enabling outplacement in some way for such categories of workers over 45 years old. This idea can be found in a legislative text today. The SP is very pleased with this. We had submitted a similar bill. In the future, we will have to remain vigilant about its application. In the draft law, the application depends on the behavior of the social partners. In my opinion, we should look at whether it ensures that older workers continue to work.

I would like to congratulate the minister on the breakthrough on another difficult dossier related to the first draft and discussed during the treatment of this draft law, namely the problem of the availability of older workers. The compromise proposed through the press is, in my opinion, a step forward. It is also completely complementary to the design of this design. You know that I, along with other colleagues, have urged to explore the track so that people who are in bridge pension schemes can get back to work while retaining their allowance. This seems to me to be a major step forward that fully reflects the idea repeatedly pushed forward by the government, namely the creation of instruments, encouraging employees and former employees to get back to work. I hope that this will soon translate into the figures when we check the level of activity in a year. As far as outplacement itself is concerned, I would like to say that in this regard we must look forward to the attitude of the social partners. To what extent will they take action to make the necessary arrangements through an interprofessional CAO. We are curious about what will happen if it turns out that this has not succeeded. You know our opinion on the possible content of the Royal Decree on this subject. Our proposed legislation was elaborated much more accurately on those points.

In connection with the reconciliation of employment and quality of life, I would like to be brief. I think there are important steps ahead in a ⁇ controversial subject. I think there are steps forward in a number of areas. I think of the collective reduction of working hours, the generalization of the 38-hour working week, the thematic holidays that are better compensated, and so on. However, I ventilated my doubts during the discussions in the committee. In the meantime, we were informed of the opinions of a number of specialists and commentators. I therefore have my doubts as to whether this time credit will lead to an expansion of the group of people who will be entitled to a career break.

There is a welles-nietes discussion on how much this is an improvement. It cannot be otherwise, since one is completely dependent on what happens in the companies.

Therefore, we are pleased that our amendment on this subject — which should lead to a very close follow-up of developments on the ground and to link political conclusions to it — was approved by 11 of the 13 MEPs. To our surprise, there was a majority group that did not support this amendment, but in any case there were 11 members who did. I think there is a good chance that we can also effectively use this control tool, which we want to install from parliament in relation to this new law.

Finally, Mrs. Minister, I would like to conclude by emphasizing that we are ⁇ pleased with the coherence between the two designs and also with the breakthrough you have achieved to enable outplacement as a means to keep people working longer and not to see so quickly flow away into all kinds of passivity. In my opinion, it is indeed correct to emphasize the importance of the royal decree that you have prepared in relation to the availability of older workers. Through encouraging employees and ⁇ ining the benefits, you are moving in the positive direction.

Chairman: Herman De Croo, Chairman President: Herman De Croo, President I would like to conclude with a critical note. Despite these designs, we must be aware that when we talk about increasing activity levels, we should absolutely not lose sight of the fact that there is a category of job seekers who do not even get the chance to get started. We are talking about many immigrant groups. Especially as part of our commitment to Europe, it is important for us to be ⁇ creative in the coming months at all levels — the Federal Parliament, the Flemish Parliament and the other subparliaments. It should be much easier to get these immigrants to work. The group of older job seekers in bridge retirement we try to re-enter the labour market through all kinds of positive incentives and on a voluntary basis, the immigrants, on the other hand, are applying for closed doors although they would very much like to enter the labour market. Often their curriculum vitae is not even read because their surname has a southern adjective. Their

Despite the importance of both designs, there is still work on the shelf if we want to bring the employment rate to 70%. We must not lose sight of immigrants.

As agreed, we will vote around 18:00. There are two speakers registered in the general discussion.

Mr. Wauters says he can handle it too.

I propose that the voting be carried out before hearing the reply of Ms. Minister Onkelinx.

I have noticed today that you are capable of everything.

That is not new.

This is indeed not new. Their

I would like to reiterate this again. So I am very vigilant.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Deputy Prime Minister, I would like to say that Mr. D'Hondt said the main thing, and it would take only fifteen seconds to get involved. I would like to be more comprehensive. by

The project to reconcile employment and quality of life is ⁇ going in the right direction. In addition to the significant advances it contains, its greatest merit is the consideration of the diversity of social demand that consists in wishing more free time.

To combat underuse of means of production and waste of human resources, our group has always said that the dynamic of generalized reduction of working time must be revived. This requirement expresses the concern of a collective management of the labour market, in particular for employment, but also that of a society that brings a real added value to workers in terms of personal development and family life. by

While the shift to 38 hours/week will be, by 1 January 2003, a tangible reality for approximately 200,000 workers in this country, we also want to emphasize the symbolic scope of this new standard, as it devotes the many sectoral efforts, isolated struggles themselves likely to generate a series of multiplier effects. by

It is therefore for us a starting point aimed at encouraging the conclusion of collective labour agreements allowing each sector or company to reduce the working time in the most appropriate way to its situation through negotiation. by

I come to the financial contribution of public authorities in order to stimulate the efforts of companies in terms of collective reduction of working hours below 38 hours/week, a financial intervention aimed not only to support the reorganization of work but also to ensure the sustainability of the system.

In the text proposed to us, we can regret the absence of a condition concerning the creation of additional jobs. Sure, we would have preferred that the conclusion of agreements be accompanied by such a guarantee, but we know that the reduction of working time must be significant enough to have a real impact on employment. We believe that this measure is part of a company project in which it is not only seen in terms of employment policy, but also in a more general framework of management of "social time".

Then, if the transition to a weekly working time of up to 35 hours or less must be supported by a reduction in employer contributions, this reduction cannot eternalize in time without the difficulty of transforming it into a quasi-structural subsidy on work. That would be unacceptable. It seems clear to us that the intervention of public authorities must be conceived as a means of allowing the reduction of working hours while waiting for the other financing parameters to produce their full effects.

As regards the scope of the measure, the possibility to reserve it only for an objective category of personnel does not in any way deprive it of its collective character, but allows to address both the needs of the undertakings and the specific problems encountered by certain workers. For example, in order to avoid significant shortages of skilled or experienced workers in certain sectors, where painfulness or simply stress is a daily fact, we believe that such a selective reduction of working time is indicated in order to avoid early departure.

With regard to the four-day week, we find that our criticism of the system established during the previous legislature has not been in vain. We are delighted with this. For us, it was more a tool of flexibility than anything else. We have often heard, in the form of a battle, of the "week of the four Thursday". In our eyes, although it is important that one can organize work differently according to the needs of the enterprise, we have always said that there were real compensations in terms of reducing the duration of work.

A very clear link is now established between the two systems with an additional financial advantage at the key, which will be able — at least we hope — to encourage more employers to explore this bold formula that combines economic efficiency, additional jobs and quality of life. by

To conclude this part dedicated to the reconciliation between employment and quality of life, I would like to say another word on the individual reduction of working time and paternity leave. Career interruption has demonstrated its positive effects in the face of requests often conditioned by periodic constraints, such as education of young children or assistance to a seriously ill person. While still allowing this, the interprofessional right to time credit for one year opens unexplored horizons in terms of responsibility for all workers, as they will be forced to manage their available capital throughout their entire career.

Even though the initial ambitions regarding the individual harmonisation of lifetime were superior to the agreement reached between the social partners, it must nevertheless be noted that a significant social dynamic has been triggered, and this at the initiative of the majority of this country. In a whole series of parity committees, there is undoubtedly a willingness to use the flexibilities of CCT No. 77, and thus to go further in the individual reductions of working time. by

We can also speak of the abolition of the replacement obligation, which is not in a way to reassure us about the financial balance of the system. This has already been said, especially in the report. Although we are aware that tensions between supply and demand on the job market do not facilitate compensatory hiring, the repeal of this formality breaks a fiscal neutrality already heavily undermined in recent years. by

With regard to paternity leave inspired by the bill proposal of our colleague Colette Burgeon, the recognition of the father in the development of the first emotional bond with the child contributes to the improvement of the quality of family life and also responds to the logic of gender equality. by

I now come to the second part of my speech, which therefore concerns the draft law on the employment rate of workers. I will limit myself to the problem of the elderly, whose need to extend the active life is and must remain an absolute priority. Our country has approximately 113,000 pre-pensioners and 170,000 unemployed elderly. It is a lot. This is too much compared to the European average. by

If we do not increase our employment rate, growth will suffer and the standard of living of our fellow citizens will obviously be affected.

In general, our option in this issue is to develop both preventive measures for workers still active and incentive measures for others. On this last point, we allow ourselves to emphasize their skills, experience and physical condition. by

The government wants the elderly unemployed to remain or become available again for the job market. This is good, but it is unnecessary to specify that the exercise will be dangerous, Mrs. Minister, when it comes to defining what is a suitable job for an unemployed person aged 50, 55 or 57 years. For us, this path is ⁇ not the best.

Among the measures that participate in both a logic of prevention and incentive, the bill also provides for the possibility of exercising training, tutoring or accompanying activities, for some workers still active at half-time. We fully adhere to this idea, which must also be understood in the general framework of the knowledge society. It is never enough to say that the appreciation of professional achievements is a great way to keep a qualified and experienced staff active. by

Another measure that has been much discussed lies at the border between preventive and incentive: it is the individual right to outplacement for workers aged at least 45 years. For us, this measure must have the effect that companies take the age range more into account in their HR policy and, ultimately, that employers dismiss more or less easily. It is also a question of equality and social justice. by

We also emphasize that outplacement is a right, which implies that any refusal may have no direct effect on the conditions for granting unemployment benefits. As a separate procedure from the employer’s dismissal and notice obligations, we express our concerns about the possible imputation of the additional cost of professional reclassification to the compensation for notice due to the worker, or even to the notice period itself.

If one cannot ignore the economic cost of reclassification, let us not forget that the dismissed worker is first and foremost a victim and that there is no obligation of result in the outplacement. We will therefore be very vigilant on this aspect of things.

The outplacement may not constitute a pretext to justify a comprehensive transaction on all the rules governing dismissals, including the right to unemployment benefits.

In conclusion, by their simplicity, coherence, originality, these two bills stand out from the plans and counterplans that have punctuated the employment policies carried out in the past. It is no longer a question of spreading efforts over a multitude of remedial measures with the disastrous effect of making the whole unreadable for the actors concerned, but, on the contrary, of choosing a few well-targeted measures and putting in them sufficient means to make them effective in the long term.

These two projects form a whole, and this has been said by other speakers. The reduction of working hours should contribute to the increase of the employment rate of workers and, in particular, of the elderly. Beyond the demands and formulas of more free time, the goal is to make society more friendly and more solidary, a society where the permeability between work and non-work will be greater. by

The Socialist Party supports you in this choice of society. We will vote on these two draft laws.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Minister, first of all, I would like to note that we are pleased that the 38-hour working week has been realized and that our bill is included in the bill and later in the law. What the previous legislature could not do, it can now do. In the committee I said that in the labour law we were going to draw down the implications of overtime. These overtime can only be charged from the 41st hour. We must do something about this, because otherwise additional hours will be delivered, and that may never have been the intention of the installation of the 38-hour working week.

We also welcome the incentive for the collective reduction of working hours, both for the adjustment premium and for the reduction of burden until 2006. We are also pleased that the possibility is created for all health services staff to take advantage of this burden reduction and this adjustment premium in the context of the reduction of working hours, so that all staff can be treated equally within the hospital sector or the RIZIV sectors.

Mrs. Minister, I only point out that from the policy we must work stimulatingly with respect to the social partners. We provide load reduction – also for the 38-hour working week – to get the patrons across the line.

Also important is the proposal on the time credit. The importance of a good combination of family, leisure time, care, social engagement and personal development is evident to everyone. For me, this is a new social issue for which we are now laying a foundation. It is good that this element has been taken out of the career break and that the new designation time credit is used. It means that people can have time. For us, it is important that this is further developed. I know – and that is the criticism I continue to express – that this is just a breakthrough of what the social partners have agreed on. We must continue to work on this and develop it, and the theme of professional career interruption must also be incorporated. Their

Moreover, supplementation in the sectors is insufficient and some workers will have fewer rights.

Mr. Minister, I have two concerns. First, the plus fifty-year-olds are now in an unclear situation. Those without a contract for reduction of working hours until retirement or bridge pension are in a penible situation. Those who work part-time and had to apply every year will not be eligible for the new scheme because they have not worked three-quarters or full-time during the last year.

Mrs. Minister, I think that all these people from the RVA should be credited to point them to their situation so that their right to time credit to their retirement can continue.

They can then conclude the agreement with their employee that their right to professional career interruption or time credit can continue until their bridge pension or retirement age. I ask that the RVA would list these people because the trade unions and not the employer organisations know the names of these people. These people are now at risk of ending their time credit as such. They must at least be informed of the choice they can make.

I come to the 50s. In the past, women were too often forced to work part-time because of the tasks they still had to fulfill. A single woman who turns fifty can now make a choice. A woman who started working part-time for her children at the age of thirty and who now turns fifty, continues to enjoy the same income. However, the previously mentioned single woman will receive an additional income. In the light of non-discrimination, I think that a solution should be sought here. For this reason, as I did for anything else in the committee, I refer again to the surplus of funds for career break in the amount of 940 million to one-and-a-half billion francs. One can think about whether this can not be used here.

In summary, the time credit is a new and good start, but inadequate. We are therefore committed to submitting new legislative proposals around its extension, as well as around the extension of the thematic career break.

A last point then. I would like to point out that 7 days of paternity leave cannot be included in the health insurance. Fatherhood leave is not a disease. Maternity leave is not a disease. I know that for the technique of paternity leave was chosen. Now that we are drawing up new building blocks for the time credit, I propose to consider whether within the social security we cannot create a fund for the time credit, for the professional career credit and for the career credit which can accommodate the various elements of the time credit, such as thematic career break, paternity leave and maternity leave. This would create a new pillar in social security. For me, this is a solution to the new social issue that arises, the connection between paid labour, care work, family work and individual development. So I break a lance to think about a new time loan and career loan fund. It can then accommodate the current promises and thus a new social problem can be solved. The round table is about to start.

Mr. Speaker, I spoke with Mrs. Anne Barzin.

Mr. Speaker, I have a vote agreement with Mr. Denis D'Hondt.

Mr. Speaker, I have a vote agreement with Mr. Jan Peeters.

Mr. Speaker, I have a vote agreement with Mr. Marcel Bartholomeeussen.

I would like to vote “Yes”.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to vote “No”.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to vote “No”.

Voting on Amendment No. 2 by Yves Leterme, Jozef Van Eetvelt on article

Mr. Speaker, for us, the bill is the logical consequence of an evolution already in place in the 1980s. It came down to the fact that the telecom sector was given the space to grow and flourish, which also actually happened thanks to the efforts of the management and staff of NV Belgacom. We will abstain from voting for the following four reasons.

First and foremost, there is a certain lack of confidence in the manner in which the dossier is represented by Minister Daems. This mistrust, by the way, lives not only in the opposition, but apparently also in government circles given the fact that there must be a confirmation through a royal decree consulted in the Council of Ministers.

Second, the authority requested by the government is unconstitutional, according to our manifesto. I refer to the opinion of the State Council.

Thirdly, we ask ourselves questions about the debt position of the new partner KPN, which was pushed forward by the Minister in the debate as such.

Finally, for us, the way in which this debate on this important draft has had to take place in the committee is a fourth reason for abstinence. This was hardly corrected by the discussion of the draft here in the plenary session.

Beginning of voting / Beginning of voting. Has everyone voted and checked their vote? All the world has voted and verified its vote. End of voting / End of voting. Results of the vote / Results of the vote.

(Voting/voting 9) Yes 78 Yes No 13 No Abstentions 37 Abstentions Total 128 Total

Consequently, the Chamber adopts the bill. It will be transmitted to the Senate.

Dear colleagues, I abstained. Certainly, I am not opposed to the industrial project relating to the future of Belgacom. But we hope that this does not become a second “Sabena affair.”

The urgency has been requested from the beginning in this case. There is also a deep discomfort in relation to the process used. Therefore, my abstention reflects the discomfort I feel about the role and mission of the Parliament.

Finally, the Minister answered us very clearly and made many commitments — whether at the level of the company, guarantees or staff status. My abstinence is therefore part of the vigilance and follow-up that I will give to this matter in the coming months.

Mr. Speaker, I did not speak during the general discussion, not because I found the topic uninteresting, but because I would like to take the opportunity to draw your attention to the hellish pace that the government is now imposing on parliamentarians.

It seems to me that it makes little sense to repeat a discussion that has already taken place in the committee in the plenary session, in particular since today we have been handed over a pressure test of a bill that contains more than 170 articles and that in the course of the next days we will also be chased by the throat.

Mr. Speaker, I appeal to your wisdom to consult with the competent ministers, in this case Minister Aelvoet and Minister Vandenbroucke, on the need to conclude such an important bill by Parliament in this way.

Although the relevant texts have been circulating outside of this institution for some time, they were only in my possession this afternoon and then because I asked for them at the Commission Secretariat, just like the other colleagues may have.

It shows inappropriate parliamentary work to initiate such a discussion without being able to seriously review the texts.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Van de Casteele’s explanation is not entirely correct.

There are no 170 articles to be discussed tomorrow, but from Article 138 to Article 182, and that makes a big difference.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mrs. D'Hondt has come to speak to me on this subject and Mr. Goutry has already cited this issue at the beginning of the meeting. I think I have understood that the government would have submitted an amendment to remove certain articles.

Mr. Speaker, I have indeed also heard that the government would submit an amendment to remove some articles, but you must still admit that this situation is a precedent.

In my short career at this house, I have never experienced that such an important design is thus pursued by Parliament and that, for that purpose, even the agenda is adjusted. Indeed, this afternoon I left this assembly for a moment to hear, upon my return, that the agenda was changed, that the majority had decided to convene the committee and that an explanation would be provided about a pressure test that had just been rolled out of the press and which had just been handed over to the members of parliament. That is intolerable.

Mr. Speaker, I ask you to act on this and ask your ministers to show a little more respect for Parliament.

All other organisations had the text of this draft for a long time and therefore had the time to formulate their opinions. Well, we are also indebted to ourselves to deliver proper work and to treat the present documents with respect for timing.

We are all prepared to return early from vacation in September to start our work in this regard.

Mr. Speaker, what Ms. Van de Casteele says is indeed a summary of my subsequent presentation. I would like to point out a practical problem. Would you like to join us and prefer to act together to solve this problem?

We were informed through the agenda — the yellow leaflets of Monday morning — that the bill would be discussed tomorrow in the joint meeting of the Social Affairs Committee and the Public Health Committee. We have prepared ourselves for this. We do not have texts, but we have at least prepared ourselves in terms of time spending and the like. You should know that the public health and social affairs committees have long been asking for more rational cooperation because very many matters have mutual relations. Tomorrow we will see that at 10:00 the Committee on Public Health begins, while at the same time the Committee on Social Affairs begins, and actually the same people should be present in both committees because we have also prepared for both cases. You must imagine that for the discussions of an important draft, which it will be anyway if it must pass now, we must be at the same time in committee A and committee B. I wonder how to solve this. Maybe there, in your rich career, you have a better suggestion for it than I do. I do not know.

Listen carefully to what the members say and repeat it a little further.

This morning I was asked by the two presidents — Mr. Wauters and Mrs. Avontroodt — to divide the draft law entrusted to the Joint Committee into divisions from 1 to 132 and from 132 to 181. One part goes to the committee of Mr. Wauters and the other to the committee chaired by Mrs. Avontroodt. I have presented it here. Mrs D’Hondt was present at that time and expressed her suspicion that that distribution would have taken place according to the content. Mrs D'Hondt also said that she had not received the text, although she had seen her post. A few minutes later I received the text and submitted a pressure sample. I even recorded the hour. At 16.28 am I received amendments from the government, which included a number of articles.

The ink of one was barely dry as amendments were filed to remove articles from the other.

That being said, I have had an interview with the secretary and normally the two committees, as decided here, will have to do their work and probably report.

Now you come up with the problem that one cannot be in all places at the same time.

I do not like the fact that at the end of the session, complex things are not sufficiently understood to make good laws. Le but du parlement, madame, c'est faire des bonnes lois.

Mr. Speaker, you are the boss of this house and you need to know the following. We have called for a joint committee because there are a lot of related issues. We’re not going to go over and over and over and over and over again from one commission to another. If we discuss that proposal in a joint committee tomorrow, we have made a lot of progress. If we split up the committees, we are not only incredibly bothered by delivering a text today without being able to prepare for it. Moreover, if things are organized in such a way that we are unable to carry out serious work, we no longer understand why we should come to this Parliament. It would be much better to break up now. Let the government do what it wants, but we are not playing the game.

Mr. Speaker, if we have requested that the Social Affairs Committee can work with the Public Health Committee, it is for everything related to the reform of the financing of hospitals. You have received the amendments. This is the part that is removed and postponed to the October entry. In these circumstances, the joint work of the two Social Affairs and Public Health commissions no longer has a reason to be. We can work in both committees separately on texts that concern exclusively public health, on the one hand, and social affairs, on the other hand, texts that must be voted before the holidays. You do not like it, Mr. Goutry, but we have gained cause. The text on hospitals will be discussed at the arrival and not before the holidays.

What is said here is obviously manifestly wrong. Mr. Mayeur has the luxury that he is indeed only a member of a committee, namely the committee for public health. He is not an effective member of the Social Affairs Committee. That is a small difference, Mr. Mayeur. I am a member of both committees. Their

I cannot do my job tomorrow. I ask for a solution for this and I do not want to be sent with a clock in the roof! I will not accept such a thing.

Mr. Wauters, you are the chairman of one of those two committees.

Indeed, Mr. Speaker, in the Social Affairs Committee, several colleagues have been asking questions and interpellations about the elements in the pharmaceutical dossier. The Minister has always followed the same track in his policy letter and in his way of expression. For the Commissioners, it will be clear what the track is. Therefore, I have assumed the responsibility not to have this draft discussed in its entirety but to have exactly these elements – it is 22 articles, because in the meantime the amendments of the government are within – discussed in the Social Affairs Committee. I opted for this division because the other lump falls exclusively within the competence of the Public Health Committee. Therefore, I think it is good for the two committees to speak separately on this issue. Last week there were justified criticisms. This whole hospital financing is indeed so complicated, there are fundamental changes in the prospect, so that we do better to take some more time for that matter. I think there was an intermediate solution here. Their

It is better to take the time to conduct the discussions. An intermediate solution has been found. As president, I also never put under chairs or benches that the way we should work is not good. The State Council’s opinion has been waiting for two months. That is not the fault of the ministers and the government and that is why I try to defend them free. I want to ensure that committee members have their rights. However, I would also like to understand a number of elements, ⁇ the two elements in the drug policy. We must be able to finish this.

The two committees have an interface with the financing of the hospitals. I agreed with my colleague Avontroodt to resume the committees in September, two weeks before the opening of the new parliamentary year. In this way, we can take enough time to discuss the entire dossier. I now ask for understanding to discuss the limited articles in both committees. That is decided here.

Mr. Onkelinx is not here for this debate. Maybe we should go back to the agenda. As for the work of September, I propose that this issue be debated at the Conference of Presidents and not here. As a reminder, the session will begin again in October.

You also amended the Rules, which requires three elements to be joined together: the agreement of the committee, the minister and the chairman of the Chamber during the holiday period.

I want to make my arrangements. There is so much coming out of us. It is pulled on two sides. I try to offer a solution. I must go to the Conference of Presidents.

The sitting hours will close on 8 October and open on 9 October.

I hope that in all your wisdom you will find a solution. What Mr. Wauters says about this proposal is, in his opinion, probably correct. However, this happens to us in repetition. The draft laws we discuss here today are dated 11 June and the discussions in the committee have begun on 13 June. Last week, the law on occupational accidents was approved. Now we are dealing with health problems. Mr. Speaker, if my sensory horns have done well, we will get a scenario with the second pillar of pensions next week.

Mr. Speaker, I am informing you. This becomes of the good too much.

(Mr. Joos Wauters is dissatisfied that he is not given the word.) (M. Joos Wauters is mécontent de ne pas avoir la parole.

Mr Wauters, in the name of God. I will have to get angry.

Mr. Wauters is always so impatient. Mr. Wauters says he has decided to carry out that division. However, that is not our problem. It can be divided, but the committees should not be held at the same time. That is the point. If you want to meet a whole day in the Social Affairs Committee and a whole night in the Public Health Committee tomorrow, that is not a problem. The committees should not be held at the same time. If this happens, we will be prevented from attending the work of both committees. We cannot accept that.

As regards the law on occupational accidents, I would like to make a small correction and point out that we had the texts in our possession for 10 days. At the time the government had transmitted the texts, I refused to initiate the discussion and postponed it. The truth has its rights.

Mr. Goutry, you can continue to play the game. Two effective members of your group in the Social Affairs Committee are not members of the Public Health Committee. The CVP still has 3 deputy deputy members who can attend the Social Affairs Committee. Two of the 3 CVP members of the Public Health Committee are only members of this committee and not of the Social Affairs Committee.

I only understand the smaller groups such as the People’s Union.

Colleagues, this debate on the arrangement of the work has taught us what and how we are dealing with it.

The incident is closed. The incident is closed.

Mr. Speaker, if I am not directly part of the cause, the debate that has just taken place is probably born because we are discussing for the moment the harmonisation of working time, which has aroused a real enthusiasm to discuss in Parliament this harmonisation of working time and quality of life, in particular parliamentarians and ministers.

That being said, Mr. Speaker, I will begin by thanking the rapporteur for his excellent work, as well as all the members of the Social Affairs Committee who have participated in a very constructive way in the work devoted to the two bills that are presented to you today, namely the one concerning the increase in the employment rate and the one concerning the quality of life in general, and more ⁇ the harmonisation of “social times”, to recall the expression of Mr. Speaker. and Delicate. This increase in the rate of employment and the decrease in working time are important, characteristic elements of the active social state and the government is ⁇ vigilant about it.

Regarding the increase in the employment rate, I would like to supplement the information expressed on this tribune by Ms. Cahay. It is true that we had, in the year 2000, a quite exceptional crude, an increase in the employment rate which was highlighted by all observers. But I think it is necessary, in order to understand the phenomenon, to note that this increase in the employment rate has been accompanied by a significant decrease in unemployment. This has been highlighted by the Higher Employment Council and thus it is the set of policies that support the re-employment of people experiencing unemployment that has yielded its fruits. We are, in the commission, all concerned that due to the slowing growth, we could experience a slowing of this increase in the employment rate and the decrease in unemployment. That is why we must continue to accompany growth with incentive measures, with support measures such as are presented to you today. I also take advantage of this to tell you that the figures for last month are better and that we are again seeing a non-negligible decrease in unemployment.

We know our problems and weaknesses. This applies especially to older workers. I am not worried about young people, even though we need to continue our efforts. Indeed, the panel considered to assess the employment rate is still young people aged 15 to 24. Now, we know that in Belgium, we have a high percentage of young people who continue their studies for a long time, and that is so much better, this can not be taken into account for having a disability in terms of the employment rate of this category of the population. I also put this issue on the table of consultation with my European colleagues to review the panel in question.

We also know that for women, there is obviously a major problem, especially for women over 4550 years old. That being said, month after month, we see a significant decrease in unemployment among women, much larger than in men, and that is of good augur, of course. On the other hand, for the older workers as a whole, men and women, we have a blow to give, we have the lowest rate in the European Union, and we need to react broadly.

The measures that are envisaged in the bills are not exhaustive, there are also a whole series of measures that have been envisaged by royal decrees, we have talked about it today, and that should encourage the increase of the employment rate among the over 45-50 years old. I will answer in this regard to Mrs D'Hont that there has been, indeed, a package for the re-employment of older unemployed, Mr. D'Hont. Delizée and Bonte spoke in particular about this, it is the generalized activation of unemployment benefits and it is also, government decision that is all fresh, the measures aimed at the availability on the labour market of more than 50 years. You know that as part of this policy, the government wanted to work mainly on incentives for the re-employment of those unemployed over 50 years.

But in addition to the specific measures for re-employment, this project includes measures for the maintenance of employment. This is of course the case with the outplacement. I would really like to insist today on this tribune, what we offer in terms of outplacement, that is, in terms of professional reclassification, is a European premiere!

It is no longer simply to allow them to give a notice or to give them a compensatory compensation of notice and then to no longer worry about the future of these workers over 45 years old, it is also that companies must invest in order to allow these workers to find a job. This is a European first. For my part, I am really very happy that this government and, if you want it, this parliament agree to go this way. by

Of course, there are still steps to be taken. You know that in the bill, we considered that the terms of this outplacement should be realised by the social partners in a collective labour agreement. Only in the absence of a convention will the government work by royal decree. It is clear, Madame D’Hondt – and I repeat here what I said in committee – that it is not simply about cumulating measures or replacing one measure with another, which would constitute a social regression. Therefore, it will be necessary to take into account the economic cost of this measure of professional reclassification but also the government’s willingness, in addition to the notice, whether it is provided or compensatory compensation, to make complementary measures of professional reclassification.

Another important measure is the maintenance of employment for those over 45 years of age. I mean the system of reducing social contributions. As clearly specified in the project, the reduction may be even greater as the worker grows with age. This is an important blow to the support for the maintenance of employment and the return to employment that must also be highlighted. by

Now to the corporate tutoring. How long have we been talking about this need to challenge the current system and to propose an innovative system of tutoring, companionship within companies! This is done with this bill since you know that seniors, who will take into account young workers to whom they will pass on their experience, will be able to accumulate as an advantage not only half-time career break allowances, but also training allowances that will be decided at the level of the company. This complementarity of compensation gives in this case also a blow to this corporate tutorage which, I think, can be promised to a bright future if, on the ground, we make a measure of importance. For this purpose, advertising campaigns will need to be set up. Social partners should be involved in this process. In any case, this should be highlighted. Like the Arlesian, we talked about it, we talked about it and we never saw anything coming. This is done today.

Finally, you know that we have put on the table individual working time arrangements specific to the elderly with reinforcements of measures planned for the more than 45-50 years. It will also be able to strengthen this willingness to increase the employment rate for women. A large number of women over 45-50 years of age, due to the generation to which they belong, their political culture, have never experienced the labour market. If they are to be attracted to the labour market, they must also be able to benefit from specific working time arrangements so that they retain their priorities outside of employment and that they can cumulate those priorities with employment, for example, part-time. At least it is the will that is included in the bill. Is this sufficient? I will never say it. This is the first of a series of major projects. There are royal orders that have been taken in addition. But on the occasion of the round tables of social solidarity, this debate will need to continue. You know that one of the specific themes is the increase in the employment rate. I hope that as part of the discussion with all partners (social partners, experts, NGOs), we will also be able to bring additional stones to this building that we call our wishes.

Finally, I take advantage of this to answer two particular questions from Ms. D'Hondt and Mr. by Wauters.

Yes, specific information will need to be given in order for this to work, but also to warn about diet change regarding career interruption. I told you recently and I repeat it in this tribune, I will ask the ONEM to consider individualized information because it is true that this system change will be able to result in decisions regarding the interruption of career for more than fifty years.

Secondly, as regards the host families, I warn that tomorrow the Interministerial Conference on Equal Opportunities will be held. I hope that together with the regions and communities, we will reach an agreement on the status for framework guards. This status will be provisional, the objective being more ambitious than the mere assignment of a social status. Indeed, as I have already said in the committee, the world cannot be rebuilt in one day; moreover, this also involves a significant deployment of resources from regions and communities. This first step will, however, support the increase in the employment rate, as these people are not currently considered to have a job when they should.

As for the second project, the quality of life, it’s not about boasting his pleasure. Recently, when France decided on a paternity leave of fifteen days, fifteen days francs, that is, ten days paid, what cocorico this has not caused: the news has caused the big titles everywhere! I point out that in Belgium, the parliament, thanks to your vote, is invited to decide this same right for all new fathers; also for adoptive parents, who had no right yet and who are endowed with a specific leave of fifteen days. This is, I think, which deserves to be highlighted. The 38 hours. A lot of people have spoken about it in this forum. There too, through an interprofessional agreement, it is possible to catch up with what is happening in the strongest sectors. In fact, it is clear that in Belgium, in not many sectors, they are well below 38 hours. It is therefore the truck-ballay to exercise solidarity for the benefit of all workers.

Collective reduction without restrictions. It is true that it was the choice of the government, it was my personal choice to strengthen our social model. I think that in Belgium, thanks to the social partnership, we are well ahead, including compared to countries that have taken large and binding measures on reducing working time. Giving the social partners tools, instruments, incentives, means to move, at their own pace, towards a much more substantial collective reduction of working time constituted, it seems to me, the right path towards a quality of life that is situated ahead of our specific social model.

of new rights. In response to Mrs D’Hondt, I said that in fact, this is a new right for all workers, whether it is the right to a one-year time credit extended to five years by collective agreement, whether it is the right to the four-day week, it is a right. It can be organized in a specific way when a number of workers within a company want to seize their rights, want to take them into account. It is normal that, as soon as a large number of workers ask for it, the organization of work must be revised. For the rest, it is an individual right. In the sectors where the right to time credit is already planned to be wider than the year, I do not see why it would be regressed from the current situation: the bill allows this extension; it constitutes a minimum one-year time credit right.

I take advantage of this to confirm to Ms. D'Hondt that this year comes in addition to what is planned in the thematic holidays. I have said this before and I would like to repeat it again. by

I am aware that there will also be additional measures needed, even though the bill itself is ambitious. Among these additional projects, for example, Mr. Langendries, in the context of relations with regions and communities, we need to do better in terms of training. This is an absolute requirement for quality of life and for the increase in the employment rate. We are currently negotiating two major reforms: one that deals with the portfolio of skills and that brings together all stakeholders in training, both communities and regions for vocational training and the federal for corporate training and that wants to make the system coherent, controlled and evaluated; the other that also makes the system of internships, immersion in enterprise coherent, transparent and more important. Currently, there are enormously different statutes, which greatly impairs this professional immersion experience.

As Mr. Bonte said that specific measures will be needed with regard to immigrants. He is right, even if, as they are part of all the vulnerable groups, the set of measures we take affect them more than others. I speak, for example, of the widespread activation of unemployment benefits: the group of immigrants is much larger among long-term unemployed than others. Through this widespread activation, we hope to ⁇ a significant impact in this group. I agree with mr. Goodbye, that will not be enough. It will need to go beyond and find specific ways that allow them to integrate much more widely into the labour market.

The two draft laws, although there were abstentions in the committee, have nevertheless been the subject of broad consensus. This consensus also supports the modalities of the dialogue we have had through these projects. With this support, Parliament shows that the agreement with the social partners – a central element of our social model – must be strengthened. I would like to thank all the members of Parliament once again for this support.

General discussion is closed. The general discussion is closed.